The Voynich Ninja

I must say that I remain skeptical.
This is not saying that they are definitely wrong of course.

However, there are a number of real anomalies in the text of the MS. Whenever I see a new proposed solution, I look out for anything that has a chance of explaining these.
In the present case we don't have a lot of information, but what is there, is largely the same as most other proposed solutions: a meaningful text in some language using an alphabetical script that has some minor form of encryption.

The strange properties seem to 'just arise', and that is not really a very satisfactory explanation.

Hi, confirm !



I solely registered post this. but yeh,=)
he is propogating it meanwhile in Turkiye and Turkish media on an seriouse/academic level. 

I ll post you some links to have the source  of this topic, if needed:

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here he's explaining voynich handbook to Mr. Turgay Tüfekçioğlu (Also one of the top guys in this field)

he did the big part of vor voynich's----  even all of it (about the handbok translation), as Kazim Mirsan is /was the leading researcher in this field - so for the book credit goes to Mr. Cağalary credit goes to him.

But this booklet is only - its a demonstration. the forteign instituations react kinda strange. like all those runic writings and wall paintings that are beeing translated now ... and ya thats the strange part ... nobody shows interest.

I cam across here while making my own searches and connected to "your" problems you encounter now trying to follow the information .... most if not all is Turkish. so am planing, to bring this onto international platform, so everybody can benefit.

so, here you go. what i forgot to say - the founding father  of this is the now passed Kazim Mirsan. He has the biggest source pool of information out there to my state of knowledge as of today. As he has passed some years ago, his partner on this yourney is now trying to make feeds on youtube etc. to pass this and open it to the people interested.

So the moderator is: Turgay Tüfekçioğlu [ Turkgai   Tüfekçiolu][/url]
And the passed away leader who has layed the cornerstones in this field is Mr. : Kazım Mirşan [ Kazım Mirshan]

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6979qCh9o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6979qCh9o
here it's about translations made in of wrtings found  in north europe sweden to germany fom stones to bones  around 6000y old, so material from mususeums. but hey i nearly forgot: from 15:00 up is about Swedens ancestry and alphabet so odin and all those figures misinterpretations but originating from proto-turkish roots. specially interesting here that a "founding father"-like figure of sweden is mentioned you has made  a publication 200 years ago just mentioning that ! the book you can't buy anymore  in turkey the translation is sold though
Prof. Dr.  Sven Lagerbringer 14:15
the topic is deep and reaching so far, that i better stop here and anybody whos up for a research has the lead with this the names and information portal on youtube. 


all the best, bb
Ali Dizdar

Thank you Alidizdar!
I think foreign Voynich researchers would be very interested in the Turkish research; the problem is that if it's all published in Turkish nobody will know about it until someone translates it into English. Then it will certainly receive international attention.
So I'm grateful that you made the effort to bring it to this forum!
Teşekkür ederim!

I am open to the idea that the Voynich is some kind of old Turkish, but their claim about acrostic worried me.

To write acrostic, sometimes one might have to use weird grammar, word order or even unusual words, or just unusual spelling of words. This gives them one more layer of freedom to interpret words: If somewhere of the text is having inconsistent grammar or whatever, they could simply explain it as “necessary modification” in order to write acrostic. Unlike modern languages which have native speakers, we have no way to decide whether such modification is OK or not for a dead language.

Another claim that sounds unusual to me is their “100 percent correct alphabet”. I don’t know how they define this, but since all previous simple substitution solutions did not work well, I guess they might have a very complex, multi-to-multi mapping alphabet, so that they could choose which mapping to use every time interpreting a word, case-by-case.

I mean, multi-to-multi mapping is not necessarily bad. It’s just like in English, we have c/ch/k/q, all reading /k/, as well as ch, reading /tʃ/, /k/, /ʃ/, /x/ case-by-case. How much freedom is acceptable, is another question, though.

I think this link is rather relevant to this discussion: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

This website appears to have been made by either Ardic Team Alberta (ATA) themselves, or by a very loyal and devoted fan of their work. It showcases the transliteration crib and number of purported translations of words and sentences in the VMS. The English version of the website needs a lot of work; I fed it through Google Translate. Even though I know no Turkic languages, and it's clear that much has been lost in Google's translation, I was still fairly impressed at how much detail the authors went into about why they transliterated and translated each word the way they did. The page gets fairly deep into Turkic etymology and language variation, particularly the Azeri language. A linguist well experienced with the Turkic languages needs to go over the finer points of this commentary, and check their references. But at least they're willing to explain each of their translation choices in a way that's checkable and at least superficially logical.

The downside is, there are surprisingly few words, phrases, and sentences translated and explained so far. If the ATA can steadily continue putting out translations this plausible, with commentary this rich, of the entire VMS, then their theory merits the Voynich community's full attention. But that's a big "if". It's also possible that this showcase is exactly that: the cherry-picked best of the ATA's work. Time will tell when the ATA's papers pass peer review, and their books are published.

(28-08-2019, 09:22 AM)ChenZheChina Wrote:I mean, multi-to-multi mapping is not necessarily bad. It’s just like in English, we have c/ch/k/q, all reading /k/, as well as ch, reading /tʃ/, /k/, /ʃ/, /x/ case-by-case. How much freedom is acceptable, is another question, though.

That is called phonetic inconsistencies, the difference between writing and spelling. It's rate is very high in the english language, while it is much lower in languages that use special additions to their alphabet to denote specific spellings, e.g. turk languages.

English can drive you mad, consider the toponyme "Aldeburgh". The English pronounce it (/ˈɔːlbərə/ AWL-bər-ə), while the Americans simply would say, yes, Aldeburg (they used to have a big NATO base there, once famous for it's UFO theories, now abandoned, great to visit, mostly for the landscape and for it's music festivals).

Multi-to-multi is a no-go, before you know the underlying language for _sure.

They dropped this in the YouTube comment section of the Q&A video:

Quote:Thanks to Professor Dr. Firudin Celilov. He has examined our work. He devoted some his precious time to our work. After his study, he gave us the following reference letter. Thus, linguists starts to verify that our studies. Which means that alphabet transcriptions (we were make for this manuscript) ensures that the manuscript was written in Turkish.

To those interested in reading of Voynich Manuscript,

I have had chance to investigate the claim that Ahmet Ardic and his sons made about the 600 year old Voynich Manuscript that it is written in Turkic. Upon studying the transcript Ardic family proposed I was able to independently verify that in fact this manuscript is written in a Turkic language.

Ahmet Ardic, during his visit in Baku Azerbaijan on September 23, 2018 has presented me his findings. After Mr Ardic’s presentation I have had the opportunity to evaluate and investigate in detail the Latin alphabet transcription he proposed. Upon investigating the individual words and the grammar structure it became evident that the manuscript is based on Turkish language and the transcript Ardic family proposed successfully translates the manuscript into Turkic language. The words, phrases and sentences that have been used in this manuscript have been read. Words and sentence structures are in harmony with the Turkish language, and while translated into the present Turkish language within the structure of the Turkish language, clear and emerging meanings are reflected. 

I am glad to bring my independent expert validation of Ardic families findings to the attention of those who are interested in this subject matter.

Sincerely,


Prof. Dr. Firudin Aghasioghlu Jalilov

The Letter In Azerbaijani Turkish;

VOYNICH əl yazmasının oxunması ilə maraqlanan şəxslərə,

Təxminən 600 illik tarixə malik olduğu deyilən, ümumdünyada onu Avropada tapdığını bildirən şəxsin adı ilə bilinən Voynich əlyazması üçün Ahmet Ardıç və oğulları tərəfindən hazırlanan əlifba transkripsiyası, yenə onların tərtib etdiyi oxuma-araşdırma işləri, dilə aid çox sayda məsəl və cümlə tərcümələri ilə 23 Sentyabr 2019 cu il tarixində tanış oldum.

Ahmet Ardıç mənə Azərbaycan Respublikası, Bakı şəhərində bu məsələ ilə bağlı ətraflı  təqdimat etdi. Ahmet Ardıç-ın təqdimatı zamanı bu əlyazmasının Latın əlifbası ilə olan transkripsiyasını tədqiq etdim. Bu transkripsiyadan faydalanaraq əlyazmasında öz əksini tapan sözlər, ifadələr və cümlələr oxunulmuşdur. Sözlər və cümlə quruluşu Türk dili ilə uyğunluq təşkil edərək, Türk dilinin cümlə strukturası çərçivəsində hazırki Türk dilinə tərcümə edildikdə aydın və başadüşülən mənalar öz əksini tapır.

Sadalananlara istinad edərək bu əlyazmanın Türk dilində yazıldığını və bu yazı üçün nəzərdə tutulan əlifba transkripsiyasının da düzgün olduğunu başa düşdüm. Bu məsələ ilə maraqlanan şəxslərin nəzərinə çatdırılır. 

Hörmətlə,

Prof.Dr.Firudin Ağasıoğlu Cəlilov

Seriously, why are they physically travelling to a location to get a hold of an "expert", as if they were in a fantasy movie? I don't consider this scientific at all.

I wonder to what extent this stil qualifies as "independent" verification though.

From today's Turkish point of view, the VM has something in common with the word structure. I noticed that too.
So the basic form, time and person is united in one word. ( gidyorum ) gid = to go, yor = present, um = me.
But from the Ottoman point of view, and from the point of view of 1400, this is not true.