The Voynich Ninja

(13-06-2024, 11:23 AM)joben Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(13-06-2024, 07:58 AM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[Note 1: Unfortunately, A. Turing did not live very long. It can be said that he fell into a psychological depression due to the British Government's efforts to castrate him because of his homosexual preferences and in a sense, he died unable to overcome the devastating effects of this. Alan Turing was a brilliant mathematician and computer scientist. He was also gay, and this was considered a crime in the UK at the time. Turing was prosecuted and sentenced to chemical castration, which he successfully resisted. Despite his persecution, Turing's legacy lives on as a pioneer of modern computing logic and a champion of LGBTQ+ rights. I would like to remember him with respect on all these occasions.

Note2: Europeans' different approaches to different aspects of human rights reminded me of a memory. I went to the British Library in London in 2019 as part of my research on VM. Here I determined that the questions asked to create this library's membership card were racist. It is very sad that England, which is trying to teach civilization lessons to countries it sees as inferior, can still take such approaches in this century.]

[I am sad to say that this is not the first time I see you take unnecessary potshots at Europe or western civilization.
There is a time and place for everything, and I don't see what this has to do with the topic.
I think we all can agree here that AI is pretty nice. But the way you use AI to promote your theory is not scientific.
ChatGPT is a fun tool to play around with, but that's pretty much it. I think this has been demonstrated pretty well in the other thread about ChatGPT.]

Dear Joben,

I think there is no need to exaggerate or divert the topic from its center. Today, ChatGPT is also at the service of science with its useful aspects. Many researchers have been taking advantage of its speed and data pool for some time. It is necessary to know how to benefit from artificial intelligence, as what it can and cannot do is changing day by day. The machine cannot mean exactly the same things to those who use it wrongly, and as to those who use it rightly.

In my work, there is no such thing as presenting the results transmitted by ChatGPT as evidence in a scientific study or article. I don't use Chat GPT to present my theory, but I do use it to compare some articles and look up certain information, and it is quite useful. What proves my theory is that the findings are concrete and the evidence shows clear overlaps between Turkish and VM-texts.

In addition, the good aspects of artificial intelligence are numerous. For example, it can quickly find what you are looking for in a huge amount of content. GPT can increase the speed of research by scanning millions of pages of information from books, academic articles, and dictionaries in seconds. And there's no need to underestimate any of the manifold benefits of artificial intelligence. Using artificial intelligence to compare my VM-works with various other studies is not something I do for myself, but his is to give some ideas to those who may think that they cannot evaluate my articles because they do not know Turkish.

We must condemn discrimination at every opportunity. There is nothing wrong with this, and I wouldn't even want to be in environments where this is not allowed.

What I wrote about ChatGPT should remind you of the regarding details:
1- In my study, the machine only looks at the data at hand and classifies them in accordance with the command, summarizes them, and compares them with each other in different details.
2- Machines do not become dishonest, prejudiced, hypocritical, double-standarded, biased, nationalist, or racist.
For this reason, in the near future, the works performed by machines will be able to interpret some of the old academic works in a new and more accurate way, which will surprise humanity. Because, AI is more consistent in distinguishing between "works rich in personal opinion but inconsistent in evidence and facts" presented in many "scientific" articles and studies, especially on history and linguistics.

For this reason, I felt the need to make a new addition to a post I made here before about the founders of artificial intelligence and understanding its capacity. That's why I wrote this note. Scientists have been oppressed in various ways by the ignorant and the ruling power in every period of history. The founders of artificial intelligence also experienced difficulties due to their lifestyles or choices. I think it would be disrespectful not to note situations such as discrimination or racism against them while talking about this issue. We humans cannot move forward by sweeping problems under the carpet or ignoring them. When necessary, it is necessary to remind the racist that he is a racist and the discriminator that he is a discriminator, and I do this from time to time and I can do this on every platform. If we cannot write about racism and discrimination here when appropriate, the admin should close my page and terminate my membership/following. But do not try to lecture me or guide me on matters that are not your responsibility. This is none of your business.

Thanks,

Is your concern about the groupings, rather than the question itself?

1. Yes , Turing was awesome. 
    The circumstances leading to his death were horrible, The British government apologised in 2009 and in 2013 Alan Turing was given a posthumous royal pardon.
    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

2. Ethnicity questions, i dont like them either, but Government statisitics. 
    Government needs to know if its treating people differently, so ironically it has to ask people to provide their differences.
    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(13-06-2024, 12:49 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(13-06-2024, 07:58 AM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I went to the British Library in London in 2019 as part of my research on VM.

[Ahmet, if you kept this memory for several years, the situation probably did not correspond to your worldview. But it's a problem of all humans: we discover sooner or later that the world is not as we imagined it in our childhood. Coming back to our topic, I hope that the research on the manuscript will allow us all to put our ideas in order, to be off-topic as little as possible.]

Dear Ruby Novacna,

Thank you for the detail and comment you pointed out.

I have not kept this memory for several years, and I have been sharing this info in different places. I also encountered this myself when filling out the registration form at the British Library during my VM research, and for this reason, I touched upon it on a page in my book on VM-themed. 

As you said, I know that others share similar sensitivity on this kind of similar issue.

Coming back to our topic, I also hope that the same thing you pointed out as the research on the manuscript will allow us all to put our ideas in order, and to be off-topic as little as possible. Therefore, if we come back to the finding or evaluation that the findings that I have shown to be only Turkish-specific between VM-texts and Turkish eliminate other natural language possibilities; I continue to expect various answers such as scientific answers, counter-answers, consistent and academic-level criticisms, or supporting comments to the questions I asked here under my topic heading specifically about our VM findings.

Thanks,

(13-06-2024, 05:44 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[Is your concern about the groupings, rather than the question itself?]

Dear Tavie
I continue to expect various answers such as scientific answers, counter-answers, consistent and academic-level criticisms, or supporting comments to the questions I asked here under my topic heading specifically about our VM findings.
Thanks

1. How many Turkic dialects have you found so far ?
2. Does the poetic meter of your translation conform to any known poetry ?

(13-06-2024, 06:03 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[1. Yes , Turing was awesome. 
    The circumstances leading to his death were horrible, The British government apologised in 2009 and in 2013 Alan Turing was given a posthumous royal pardon.
    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

2. Ethnicity questions, i dont like them either, but Government statisitics. 
    Government needs to know if its treating people differently, so ironically it has to ask people to provide their differences.
    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]

Dear RobGea,

Yes, I know about the "A.Turing, a Royal sorry". 

However, in similar situations, many states or governments do not apologize. Such apologies should not make this same kind of problem forgotten because the problems have not been solved in people's minds. For example, the British Library continues to ask people racist questions on their membership forms.

Moreover, even though apologies have been made on similar issues, racism and discrimination continue in a changing form. I don't want to multiply examples here so as not to extend the topic, but I have also been exposed to various forms of racism and discrimination. For this reason, I can admit that I may be a little sensitive on these issues.

In my opinion, the British Library asks here, "Are white people or black or Asian people coming to us more to do research or read books?" This question can be answered with this kind of statistical approach too. If he can reach this type of answer, this is a kind of racism. In my VM-related research (just after I had answered those questions to fill out such a form), I was kept waiting for more than half a day to access a book held by the library. For this reason, I shared this BL survey form in my VM-related book too. Moreover, this survey was not conducted voluntarily. I filled it out compulsorily because I was told that I could get a membership card after filling out the survey. (I was not told that I could become a member even if I did not fill out this survey.)

(13-06-2024, 06:10 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Dear Tavie
I continue to expect various answers such as scientific answers, counter-answers, consistent and academic-level criticisms, or supporting comments to the questions I asked here under my topic heading specifically about our VM findings.
Thanks

I don't know what answers you expect from me, particularly as you have ignored most of my questions or points, including the entirety of my last post about the lack of doubt in this thread meaning your method is not scientific.  What you're describing now, i.e. that it is taking you a year to "translate" 11 lines, should be a red flag that should cause you to question your system and the assumptions underpinning it.  Assuming that the words your system struggles with must be a rare dialect or another language entirely is not a sign of a scientific approach. 

And before you again accuse me of not wanting the language to be Turkish, there is always the possibility that it is in Turkish but that your system is entirely or mostly wrong.  After all, we have had no fewer than nine Latin theories published on the forum, and their systems are all wildly different.  There has also been more than one Turkic based theory on this site.

As to the British Library registration form, I can't imagine why you don't expect questions when you make such an off topic and serious comment.  The intention is to gather statistics to show whether the library is inclusive to all ethnic groups.  This may not happen in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but it is very common in the UK.  It may be a voluntary initiative in this case, or it may be because the British Library is a public body and so is governed by the Equality Act.  The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for public bodies reporting on their compliance with the Equality Act suggests obtaining and publishing data on the ethnicity of both their staff and their "customers", which in this case means users of the library like you. 

As your own picture shows, you are perfectly at liberty to pick the "Not stated" or "prefer not to say" option, which many people do.

If instead it was the choice of groupings that you were concerned about, you can get in touch with the British Library.  I'm sure they would be keen to hear about this so that they can make changes.

(13-06-2024, 06:16 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[1. How many Turkic dialects have you found so far ?
2. Does the poetic meter of your translation conform to any known poetry ?]

Dear RobGea,

1. Are you asking how many Turkish dialects we found in the VM texts? If this is your question, the answer is:

> We have not been able to identify a specific dialect in the VM dialect whose linguistic phonetic forms have been recorded by linguists before. There may be several reasons for this. We can mention that the primary reason is that there is no other manuscript belonging to a clearly defined dialect that we can phonetically compare to identified VM texts. In other words, the author's dialect may be a Turkish dialect with a low population density (who did not leave any written example written 600 years ago that has survived to the present day).

> Or a member of the minority, who obviously knows Turkish well even though her/his native language is not Turkish, may have wanted to write this book in Turkish and did so.

If we are talking about an unknown dialect, we must understand the phonetic structure of which region today, especially some of the noun words (such as plant names) mentioned in VM-texts are close to. To understand this, we have been constantly comparing the findings with different dialects for a long time. While making this comparison, we see that as time goes by, there is a greater degree of similarity to the dialects of a certain geography. Based on this, we determined that the author mostly used words known from adjacent geographies such as the Black Sea, Thrace, and North-Aegean. I think that our conclusion on this subject may evolve over time to point to a narrower geography as the contribution of linguists to our work increases.

2. We can see that the author uses a poetic rhyme form in the texts mostly in the section about plants. If I were to answer your question based on current findings; It can be said that the rhyme form is not followed on the pages other than the pages on which plants are discussed.

Thanks

[quote="tavie" pid='60090' dateline='1718301339']
[quote="Ahmet Ardıç" pid='60085' dateline='1718298621']

Dear Tavie,

I expect the linguists-researchers and academicians who read my comments on this page (or in my papers) to respond (approaching my specific questions at a scientific level) or to comment or ask more specific questions. If you are not that person who needs to continue communication on this particular linguistic detail, please do not feel obliged to continue this communication in this way.

There is a word in Turkish: "laf-salatası" (word salad). We use this expression as an analogy to describe the expression style of people who touch on many different topics and think that they are speaking intelligently, but in reality, they cannot touch the main subject. 

I will answer your question & comment briefly. There are structural overlaps that I have put forward, and their Turkish-specific evidence is also evident. I ask scientists what the evidence I present means as a result of scientific comparison. Moreover, if someone does not know how this type of scientific comparison should be made in comparative linguistics or how the results declared by a comparison should be read, it means that the person is not that person who can comment on this type of linguistics.

Please first look carefully at how many pages there are in the Old English texts that Shakespeare wrote nearly 400 years ago, and by what methods they were translated into today's modern English, and how many years it took. Then please make a comparison for VM texts (which that particularly & knowingly created to make it difficult to read) in your mind and keep the answer to yourself because I'm not curious.

The British Library is wrong in this approach. Statistical forms can be filled out voluntarily. If there is an option on a form to skip a detail without answering, this option will be marked more often by those who find the questions racist or discriminatory, and probably the other people will mostly answer. In other words, even the existence of such a possibility makes us understand that the survey cannot make accurate statistical or scientific measurements. If you submit this type of form before becoming a member of a library, these types of questions will definitely cause or remind you of discrimination. Let the British Library fix this themselves, I will not tell it them. Maybe in a hundred years they will see an inconsistency here and correct it. So, frankly, I think it would be better to wait and see when this mindset might see a problem in a survey of this type.

Thank you