The Voynich Ninja

"in the history of written Indo-European and Semitic languages, there were no quadruplets or quintuplets of words."

This statement is false. It only corresponds to your assumption.
The real problem is that you cannot see any punctuation marks in the VM text. If I leave out the punctuation marks, quadruples or quintuples are quite possible.
"so nimm das. Das dass das ersetzt ....."/ " so nim das das dass das ersetzt ...."   "so take that. That replaces .....".
The context is there. Difficult to understand, but possible. Even without gimmicks.
You say it often occurs in Turkish texts, but you have never shown any examples.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[quote="tavie" pid='59940' dateline='1717795391']
[Putting the insults to one side...]

Dear Tavie,

In one of the previous comments in the past, dear "Cvetka" wrote about a topic that I never considered, creating the impression that the idea she wrote was my own thought/approach. What she wrote was: "According to Ahmet's logic, only Turkish linguists can judge the VM and claim or disclaim whether the language is actually Old Turkic."

Moreover, similarly, distorting what I wrote while interpreting it or reinterpreting it in a way that created the perception that I was thinking about things I wasn't thinking about was a form of behavior that was sometimes used towards me in these pages. So, along with Mr. Cvetka, others had made similar approaches. There is not a single person among you who would feel the need to condemn or criticize those who did this to me. Someone who is known to everyone who is a follower of this platform addressed me directly and made very harsh sentences that could be considered insults and curses on his own web page. I haven't seen a single person condemning this either on that page or on this page. However, it would be more appropriate for followers to demonstrate the sensitivity they can show in situations such as unfair practices and behaviors or insults or swearing, not by selecting people, but by showing them equally to everyone. In fact, no one has the right to do these things.

Now, please show me the sentence or sentences in which I insult you or someone else by sharing the page address of the comment where they are mentioned and by marking the paragraph containing the insult, if you don't mind. Because I do not think that I have written any insulting article against anyone in my comments and shares here.

We are open to criticism, and we have repeatedly asked for our articles to be criticized in accordance with scientific criteria in different ways. We especially expected linguists to refute our evidence. We have not yet received this type of criticism. One of the purposes of being here is that we expect researchers discussing the same subject to be able to discuss and criticize certain details of the subject, and by understanding that the content is Turkish, we may be able to provide help and support in identifying the words of various European languages used in Turkish sentences in the content. I would like you to know that such approaches towards me by those who distort what we wrote and answer our questions personally rather than scientifically are unfair.

[quote="Aga Tentakulus" pid='59946' dateline='1717802739']
["in the history of written Indo-European and Semitic languages, there were no quadruplets or quintuplets of words."

This statement is false. It only corresponds to your assumption.
The real problem is that you cannot see any punctuation marks in the VM text. If I leave out the punctuation marks, quadruples or quintuples are quite possible.
"so nimm das. Das dass das ersetzt ....."/ " so nim das das dass das ersetzt ...."   "so take that. That replaces .....".
The context is there. Difficult to understand, but possible. Even without gimmicks.
You say it often occurs in Turkish texts, but you have never shown any examples.]


Dear Aga Tentakulus,

I said; "In the history of written Indo-European and Semitic languages, there were no quadruplets or quintuplets of words."

You said; "This statement is false. & It only corresponds to my assumption."

Now I will wait for you to prove that the statement is false. In this case, please reveal to me, for example, that there are these word repetitions in past manuscripts of Indo-European languages by indicating particular any single manuscript. Please prove this not only to me but to everyone else by writing here, because if you find this evidence, this claim that I put forward here will be refuted, and if this happens, this situation itself will be considered as support for my work. Because proof of criticism is valuable because it means I will have to revise my work.

You said "The real problem is that you cannot see any punctuation marks in the VM text. If I leave out the punctuation marks, quadruples or quintuples are quite possible."

I would be happy if you proved this too. In other words, I repeat what I always say and write in different ways. I expect you to abstract criticism from personal assumptions and base it on evidence.

Otherwise, if I have to respond to every reader presenting their personal views as criticism with linguistic value, this would be a waste of my time.

You wrote that; "so nimm das. Das dass das ersetzt ....."/ " so nim das das dass das ersetzt ...."  "so take that. That replaces .....".
The context is there.

This sentence is an attempt to produce in your mind the type of word repetition I described in order to refute my question. But at this point, you need to understand that you have broken away from science. Here, based on the limits of your imagination, scanning millions of old texts that I created with AI and not finding such word repetitions are not the same thing. I hope you can distinguish between evidence and personal judgment. Otherwise, you will mislead both yourself and your readers.

You said that;
"You say it often occurs in Turkish texts, but you have never shown any examples."

Not only me but also the artificial intelligence wrote that the structural overlaps I presented here were found in Turkish and referred to the evidence. What is this evidence? These evidences are written by linguists who are experts on the Turkish language, showing their evidence in their articles. Why do I refer to what linguists have written about the form and structure of these repetitions, rather than finding word repetitions from old manuscripts that have been cited? Because, first of all, these types of references are academic articles of subject experts that contain evidence, and referencing them is a frequently used method in scientific platforms. On the other hand, I cannot read the Arabic alphabet and I have never taken the time to read it. There is an expert for every job. The number of manuscripts written in Turkish with the Arabic alphabet is by far greater than the others. It is not possible for me to show the word repetitions in these without knowing this alphabet. However, even though I cannot read Turkish texts written in the Arabic alphabet, I show them by referring to the articles of linguist Turcologists who have read them and written articles about these manuscripts, not to the opinions of people on the street who can read them.

Science accepts the method I use here because we can guess that examples are found in millions of scientific articles that have been written. But it is clear that the word repetitions you produce in your mind cannot be scientific evidence that can refute what I and AI wrote. I don't know if I was able to tell you the difference this time.

Please See This too: 
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QUESTION FOR AI:
Taking into account all the manuscripts written in Indo-European Languages in ancient times, the transcriptions and images of the original of which you can access, I would like you to answer the following question: Is there a single text in the history of Indo-European languages in which word triads, word quadruplets and word quintuplets are found together? (Can you even find such a result if punctuation marks in these texts are ignored?)

ANSWERS AND REFERENCES GIVEN BY AI:
In the history of Indo-European languages, there is no widespread evidence of texts where word triads, quadruplets, and quintuplets are found together as a consistent linguistic pattern. While repetition of words for emphasis or poetic effect is a known literary device in these languages, it is not typically used in the structured form of immediate successive repetitions like triads, quadruplets, or quintuplets.

The search through available academic resources and historical transcriptions does not reveal any specific Indo-European texts where such patterns are a characteristic feature. Repetition in Indo-European languages, when it occurs, is generally for rhetorical purposes and not as a grammatical or syntactic structure. Therefore, it is unlikely to find ancient manuscripts with these exact patterns if we disregard punctuation marks.

For a more comprehensive study, one would need to conduct an extensive review of ancient manuscripts, which could be a vast undertaking given the breadth of Indo-European languages and the historical periods they cover. Such an analysis would require access to specialized databases and the expertise of linguists and scholars in the field of historical linguistics.

Here are some of the many sources considered and referenced by Copilot / 08.06.2024:
(1) Indo-European vocabulary - Wikipedia. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
(2) Word Classes in Indo-European Languages - Oxford Academic. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
(3) Morphology in Indo-European Languages - Oxford Research Encyclopedias. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
(4) undefined. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

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Dear Aga Tentakulus, 

Please do not consider your personal predictions as if they were equivalent examples or results. The scientific approach is based on the comparison of similar examples. You cannot criticize a structural and linguistic phenomenon that I explained as having no example in written Indo-European history by comparing it with the sentence model in your mind. This type of approach cannot be considered as comparing two equivalent materials. It cannot have any scientific value. If you remember, you tried to weigh my evidence with your imaginary sentences twice before. But at some point, even if my English is bad, I hope you will understand this third example answer I gave on the same subject. Please do not hesitate to ask if there is anything you do not understand.

Thank you.

QUESTION for AI:
When you make a statement as GPT artificial intelligence, you also share the list of resources under that statement. Does this sharing of yours mean that you did research limited to those sources while answering the question asked, or did you also look at other sources that you could access in your data pool and that were related to the subject? So, I understand that although you have scanned many sources, you include some of them in your reference list, but you do not see the need to cite all of them. What can you say to those who are curious about this? For example, how wide an information pool are we talking about when scanning sources in your research?

ANSWER given by AI to this question:
When I provide an answer and share a list of resources, it generally means that the specific references listed were consulted during the course of that particular interaction. These sources are highlighted to ensure transparency and to provide verifiable evidence for the information presented. However, my responses are also informed by a vast internal knowledge base developed from a diverse range of sources up until my training cutoff date, which is September 2021.

How My Responses Are Informed
Training Data: My training data consists of a large and diverse set of texts from books, articles, websites, and other written material across a wide range of subjects. This provides me with a broad foundational knowledge on many topics.

Contextual Understanding: When responding to queries, I utilize this comprehensive background knowledge, combined with specific sources retrieved during the session, to formulate a coherent and accurate answer.

Recent Information: For questions requiring the most recent information or specifics beyond my training cutoff, I rely on targeted searches and provide citations from the results of those searches. This ensures the information is up-to-date and accurate for recent developments.

Pool of Information
Internal Knowledge Base: This includes millions of documents, articles, and books encompassing a wide array of subjects. The knowledge from these sources is distilled into a general understanding that I use to generate responses.

External Searches: For certain questions, especially those that require the latest data or specific details not covered in my training data, I perform targeted searches and provide references from those specific results.

Summary
Referenced Sources: These are the specific materials I cite in the response to ensure accuracy and verifiability for the given query.
Broad Knowledge Base: My responses are also supported by a vast internal database that encompasses a wide range of pre-2021 information.
By providing a mix of cited sources and leveraging my broader knowledge, I aim to offer the most comprehensive and reliable answers possible.

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OK. I don't care what the AI says.
Just bring me a manuscript page that shows exactly what you write. Shouldn't be difficult then.
By the way, that was not a fantasy, but normal, daily use, written as spoken.


Here's a three as an example, now it's your turn.

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[attachment=8670]Bild

[attachment=8671]
There are passages of text where even the AI goes crazy.

Dear Aga Tentakulus,

The structure found in one (in VM & in Turkish) does not exist in the other (in IE languages) in the same structural pattern.

If a comparison is to be made between two examples, and we want this comparison to be scientific, we must first avoid comparing apples to bicycles. It would even be beneficial to make sure we are not comparing apples to oranges.

I would like to ask which Indo-European language contains a word triad as in the example you provided, but before that, you will need to prove that the example you gave is indeed a word triad. Let's assume you have done this. Then, in addition, you will need to show that quadruplets and quintuplets of repetitions are also found in the same form in the same language. As I said, our goal is to see if we can find equal examples for comparison. I have indicated another Turkish manuscript where all these features are seen together (just as they can be together in a manuscript in the structure of VM texts), referring to Turkish manuscripts.

I found this name in the articles of linguists, but the scanned images of the original pages of the mentioned manuscript are not available on the internet. I cannot also distinguish similar words due to my inability to read because the Arabic alphabet is used. If I could read the Arabic alphabet, I would have had to find the original manuscript referred to, but as I said, this detail is a matter written in some academic articles by some linguists about some Turkish manuscripts, and I have given references to these sources.

Furthermore, we encounter such structures throughout all periods of Turkish history. We can see word repetition structures in Old Turkish texts on almost everyone or a few pages of my writing. In a language that writes words twice to some extent to make plurals, we should not be surprised by the frequency of these structures.

However, when we look for examples to make a statistical comparison, we cannot do so because we cannot find the word quadruplets and quintuplets in IE languages. At the same time, this search effort itself carries statistical value. Because we are already comparing a writing form that is in Turkish but not found (unencountered) in the Indo-European language group, and here we have a zero value on one side and a value of 1 and more on the comparison table on the other side.

I write again that if science is to make a statistical comparison or comparative linguistics studies between two examples, it looks at whether these examples are found in the same or similar form. The examples you created in your mind or said to exist in spoken language, and the example you gave here (which I will assume is an exception and a triad), cannot be compared with the VM and Turkish overlaps. The structure found in one does not exist in the other in the same structural pattern.

Thanks

(08-06-2024, 07:58 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are passages of text where even the AI goes crazy.

Dear Tentakulus,

In the images you shared, I cannot see quadruplets and quintuplets where the same word is written side by side repeatedly. If you show that these exist by sharing the translation and transcription of the texts you shared, and even present the evidence in a short article on this subject, I think they will write your name in golden letters in the history of Indo-European languages of science. Moreover, thanks to you, artificial intelligence will be able to become smarter in this detail. And moreover, I hope that artificial intelligence will be able to give a different result by referring to your article when we ask the same question a few years later.

Note: Also look at the Persian and Georgian writings. I'm sure you can also see ten or fifty structures of the same word written side by side. Perhaps linguists or artificial intelligence may not want you to prove that these similar words in handwriting resemble the linear pattern of pasta/makaroni-characters are the same word. I promise you that if they accept, I will also accept your results. Therefore, please make Indo-European linguists aware of these unique structures and word repetitions. They may even think that musical notes are words, and thus, you will enlighten not only me but everyone else with the information you will spread. Please do not deprive us of this chance and knowledge.

Thank you.

(08-06-2024, 07:53 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.OK. I don't care what the AI says.
Just bring me a manuscript page that shows exactly what you write. Shouldn't be difficult then.
By the way, that was not a fantasy, but normal, daily use, written as spoken.


Here's a three as an example, now it's your turn.

---

Bild

Dear Tentakulus,
Also, the three words written side by side that you present as a word trilogy in this image are not the same word, I'm afraid. Because there is a difference between their writing style and pattern. Compare especially the first word and the third, but in fact, all three appear to be different words that may be phonetically close. For this reason, I recommend that you focus on words that you can read and explain. As I said, if I am wrong, please make these findings or inventions an article so that Indo-European linguists will be aware of the existence of this information and spelling patterns.

You don't need to give me a lecture.

Just give me an example.

Thanks

Dear Tentakulus,

Here you present false, misleading, and inconsistent examples of triple, quadruple, and quintet word structures in a way that will mislead everyone. Or, when you look at the photos, you can have your glasses prescription checked to see that the words that look like pasta writing are not the same. Because maybe this is an issue related to your eye health & with all due respect, maybe you would like to see your ophthalmologist again.

I certainly gave my examples of overlaps by citing evidence. But readers can distinguish as they wish what is scientific evidence and what is an illusion or analogy. In order for science to progress, I suggest you do not over-examine the evidence I have presented, do not trust artificial intelligence at this stage, but write at least one short and effective article using what you know to be true and the images you have shared. In this way, at least the Indo-European linguistics world will not be deprived of these findings and information.

I hope our mutual sense of satire and humor will not be perceived as insults because they are not. I don't want you to perceive it that way, because in fact, you are one of the people in this group who presents what they believe in with examples, and we can establish dialogue at least to a certain extent. For this reason, I would like you to understand me and I offer my respects to you.

In short, I think it is an optical illusion, but if not, please write these findings into an article and when they are confirmed, I will admit that I was wrong in this detail in my own article.

Thank you,