The Voynich Ninja

Ahmet, I have asked you before to stop with the political themes. This is a slippery slope. Please, Voynich theory only.

(18-07-2024, 04:25 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Instead of such lengthy disputation, I would much prefer a few short results.

I think the different parts of the VMs text should be prioritized for translation.

My selections would include the wheel and spokes of the VMs cosmos, the three circular bands of text in the VMs Zodiac that are designated by Stolfi's markers, and the main band of circular text in the central VMs Rosette. 

[If anyone believes they have a translation system that works, let's have a demonstration based on the prioritized texts.]

Dear R. Sale,

I agree with this idea. This is precisely what needs to be done. Moreover, I have been doing this for years, reading the texts and finding every word I read in dictionaries and showing them. I am not content with just that; I also refer to historical dictionaries. Linguistics essentially adopts a primary method of showing phonetic and semantic proximity or complete overlap between words in different languages being compared. Compared to many different methods, this is the stage that needs to be overcome to make it possible to translate texts, sentences, and pages exactly into modern languages in the final analysis. We are at this point. In the text readings I have previously shared, I have repeatedly shown words that have not changed their phonetic structure in 600 years. Moreover, I have shown that their meanings are the same due to words corresponding to the drawings and as a result of sentence translations. This is what needed to be done, and we did it, and the same process will be done for all pages.

Thanks

(18-07-2024, 04:50 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ahmet, I have asked you before to stop with the political themes. This is a slippery slope. Please, Voynich theory only.

Dear Koen G,

This time I don’t understand which of my statements you consider to be politically motivated. Please point out the sentence, and I will try to reconsider and empathize. I write about linguistic topics, and I believe this is also related to the VM, and history is a part of it.

If possible, focus on my VM readings, and ask for details by following the path of linguistics. Questions that go beyond logic and scientific acceptance, and are repeated even after being answered, can expand the area of discussion. It would be more helpful if we could advance the communication by examining the work on word and sentence readings specifically. This way, there will be no need to explain something from another field.

What I want is for you (and for researchers) to examine, scrutinize, and question our words, sentences, and full-page readings from the perspective and approach of linguistics. I would be pleased if you could do this.

I also expect you to show the same sensitivity when others present things I didn't write as if I wrote them. If you can do this, it may create a more balanced discussion and examination environment.

Thanks,

Ahmet, 

Stop being intellectually dishonest. 
You know, we know, everyone knows. 

Its funny how in every post you talk about Turkish language, and Turkish history of linguistics, and Turkish Sultans, but I don't recall you ever commenting on negative historical events to do with Turkey. Everyone else seems to get one. Strange. 

Here's one for your British history folder. 
The proverb “those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones” is often cited as originating in Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde written in 1385.



We probably stole it; but you get the point.

Your statements about the Indo-European language and culture deny the scientific consensus and replace them by a politically motivated fringe theory. You will, of course, disagree with this assessment; you have bought into the idea that the whole field of comparative linguistics is a Eurocentric scam, so of course I will defend it. This is why talk like this will only lead to unpleasantness, which is why I would rather not have it here.

Since you are a fan of ChatGPT, I asked for its input:

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Maybe you get it now.
But either way, it is off topic. Please stick to your Voynich theory.

(18-07-2024, 06:01 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ahmet, 

Stop being intellectually dishonest. 
You know, we know, everyone knows. 

Its funny how in [every post you talk about Turkish language, and Turkish history of linguistics, and Turkish Sultans], but I don't recall you ever commenting on negative historical events to do with Turkey. Everyone else seems to get one. Strange. 

Here's one for your British history folder. 
The proverb “those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones” is often cited as originating in Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde written in 1385.

We probably stole it; but you get the point.

Bluetoes101

I assume Bluetoes101 is not your real name. Stop making inconsistent comments on topics you do not understand. At least, there is no need for these here. If you have knowledge about the history or the details of the VM, share it so that we can learn. If you don't have any knowledge, share your unnecessary comments under another topic.

There is no need to shout under the topic where I share my findings about the VM. There's no need for comments at the level of those who cried and shouted "Let's burn the witches, let's burn the witches" in medieval Europe. If you have any knowledge in the field of linguistics, speak up. If you have knowledge about Turkish history specifically related to the VM, you can write about that too. If you are studying the etymology of Indo-European and Turkic languages, you can also share your knowledge about certain words.

As I have written repeatedly, I prefer those who have knowledge in linguistics and history that is relevant to the VM's history to speak. But I do not appreciate those who speak just because they have a mouth.

The content of the VM is in Turkish. Even if you or others do not understand this, it won't change. So keep your low-level comments to yourself. The topic is already the Turkish language. The content of the VM is closely related to Turkish history before 1453 as well. Besides reading a manuscript, I am also showing that the information in the content overlaps with historical events. It is a manuscript written during the period of Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror, and the name "Mehmet" is written on the last page. That's why I got into this detail. I have also shared this detail for the first time. The content includes coded military information. You haven't understood the topic yet. I am explaining the details related to the content of the VM, and everything I have written is closely or remotely related to this.

You say; "every post you talk about Turkish language,  and Turkish history of linguistics, and Turkish Sultans".
> The subject is VM and it is the subject in Turkish since the VM is written in Turkish. That's why I am talking about Turkish. Does this inform you something?
> Now I am asking you to prove that I talked about Turkish Sultans' topic in every past post of mine.

For example, before today's post, I am giving you a chance to prove that I talked about this topic in every post. Now, tag my old posts and show everyone that I talked about this in every post, you to prove it to everyone. If you can't do this, it will turn out that you are a liar, which I cannot tolerate because, unfortunately, such platforms open to every type of person can have people who spout their opinions without understanding the topic.

I don't think your level of current knowledge evaluation skills will contribute to our VM-related work. So continue your comments under topics or fields at your level and do not make unnecessary noise here. If you have any words or criticism regarding the linguistic details of the VM or its history, just write that.

In our history, there is no disgrace to remind us that "people living in glass houses should not throw stones." We also say that "everyone tries to criticize others using the same methods as in the history they know." There are deceitful lies fraudulently attributed to our history, but none of them have been proven.

Also, since the word "dishonest" means "behaving or prone to behave in an untrustworthy or fraudulent way", I am not the one behaving this way. So I don't take this word to heart.

Here for months, I have only been asking questions about the content of the VM, and my posts are related to this. However, a few people in this group constantly twist what I write and create the perception that I wrote things that I did not. Some seem to tolerate this behavior. You should know that this behavior is not right. This is the behavior that deserves criticism.

We have proven and shown that the content of the VM is Turkish through various findings and overlaps. Are you talking about this or about your own history when you say "I know, everyone knows"? I don't think those who don't think the VM content is in Turkish have read my comments. If you don't think so, don't read. Look, there are other topics on this platform and maybe you should engage with them.

Now I expect you to prove that I talk about sultans and Turkish history in every post. If you prove it, I will apologize for everything I wrote here. If you do not prove it, you will deserve what I wrote here.

Please also share your information that proves that the content is not in Turkish or that the sources we show are not academic sources. If you have any knowledge and work on the VM, whether in history or linguistics, share it here. For example, share your articles so we can read them. But if you don't have these, then what are you doing on this page? Go mind your own business.

(18-07-2024, 06:27 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your statements about the Indo-European language and culture deny the scientific consensus and replace them by a politically motivated fringe theory. You will, of course, disagree with this assessment; you have bought into the idea that the whole field of comparative linguistics is a Eurocentric scam, so of course I will defend it. This is why talk like this will only lead to unpleasantness, which is why I would rather not have it here.
Since you are a fan of ChatGPT, I asked for its input:
Maybe you get it now.
But either way, it is off topic. Please stick to your Voynich theory.

Dear Koen G,

"Scientific consensus means the consensus of scientists." This is correct, as you have written and as the information shared by Chat GPT indicates, these are thoughts that reflect the views of the majority and are agreed upon. However, the history of science is always full of scientists who have broken down the information that was generally accepted by the "majority" in the past and added new knowledge with new findings.

Moreover, the fact that the majority accepted the existence of an event in the past does not prove that the event existed in the past. This is a consensus, but the evidence is something else, and you know that.

However, there is no single first-degree scientific evidence proving that this proposed PIE root language actually existed. It cannot be, because we are talking about thousands of years. But for the PIE theses, a significant portion of the words that were associated with about 400 languages through the help of about 60 to 100 words are also present in the Turkish language. This has been proven, but those who put forward the PIE view preferred to ignore the completely new findings. This behavior is outside the scientific approach and should be criticized.

Also, if linguistics claims that there is no connection between Turkish and Sumerian, which have a commonality of 1600 to 1700 words, but claim that 400 languages are from the same root just because they could match 100 of these words, would that be consistent? Although the obtained XYZ result suggests a commonality among 400 languages, why is the same XYZ result not sufficient to explain the commonality for S and T languages? This is not scientific, but a political, cinematic, or racist approach, and it has no place in science.

You cannot treat assumptions as evidence. Someone can come and prove that the world is not actually flat like a plate, and for a very long time after that, the widespread false ideas that the majority adhered to continue to be respected. If it weren't so, would there still be people today who believe that the world is flat after so many years have passed? The PIE thesis has collapsed, but the acceptance of its collapse may take time, but it is unstoppable.

Let me tell you what the problem is. The problem is the issue of conservatism in widespread scientific opinions. Multiple findings by different linguists have shown that the PIE assumption has collapsed. But just as those who understood the VM-Turkish content findings chose to remain silent, Western linguistics do not want to wake up from their beautifully concocted tales.

But rest assured, this state of sleep will not last long. Perhaps within the lifespan of our Generation Z, it will be understood that the PIE hypothesis is a skillfully fabricated, logic-deficient freak inference. These topics can be discussed while staying within the field of linguistics, not at a political level. Still, if you say not to enter into this discussion in a VM-content community, I will try to comply as much as possible. But I cannot guarantee it. If you have any reminders for those who distort my writing and write as if I have written things I have not, I think it would be more balanced. After all, I am the only person with my VM-Turkish views & materials here. So, I am considered a minority. Therefore, I expect you to oppose the injustice done to me and the distortion of my words as if I had written things I did not write."

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I have a master's degree in Historical Linguistics - I know how these things work. The language is reconstructed because these peoples (like most cultures at the time) did not write. So the only way we have to reconstruct this language is by comparing its descendants.

I am getting reports left and right from members calling out your posts.
I literally have the degree required to understand what you are talking about, and all I see is a fringe theory driven by a pre- WW II nationalistic agenda.
You are the biggest fan of ChatGPT on this forum and it literally calls your theory politically driven.

I will have no more of this on the forum. One more and you're banned.

Dear Researchers,

I would like to remind you of a point I have previously mentioned and expect you to respect my perspective.

Look, I believe most of you here are adults. Let's try to maintain this discussion at a scientific level by sharing information and documents related only to linguistics and historical events that we think could be connected to the VM. I understand the criticisms made by the admin, and they are not wrong. Some details of the topic are prone to be drawn into the political arena, but these details can still be discussed scientifically without involving politics. However, if we are to avoid talking about findings and studies that could be politically engaging, I will do my best to remember and follow that.

I have a request as well. In the past, I have commented on other subjects on this voynich.ninja platform. However, for a long time now, I have been writing about specific details and providing information and documents under a specific topic related to my work on the VM. I assume you are reading what I write because you consider the possibility that the VM texts might be in Turkish. I want only those who see the potential of the VM texts being in Turkish to read the information and details I share under this topic. So, if you are already convinced that the VM texts are definitely not in Turkish, do not read the comments and posts here, thus saving both my time and your time. I believe this request is quite understandable, reasonable, and fair. I expect you to respect this choice.

Additionally, for those who read my comments and posts on this page and want to write something here afterward, every researcher should pay attention to the following points:

1- If you are going to enter into a debate with me on a subject I wrote about, do not do so in a generalizing and scattered manner. On the contrary, continue the discussion in an inquisitive and scrutinizing way about the specific details I wrote and without deviating from scientific approaches.

2- Read my writings carefully and avoid sharing comment sentences here that create an impression as if I wrote what I did not. In fact, I do not invite those who exhibit such disrespect and insist on continuing to do so to comment under this topic. I do not even want to engage with you. Show respect and stop writing to me. You can write to me only and only if you clearly apologize for your behavior.

3- I will also write here about historical events that I think are related to the VM. I will also write here about events within the scope of linguistics that are related to the VM. If you perceive these as Turkish nationalist propaganda, do not read what I write under this topic. Because it would be impossible to discuss with you on a scientific level. Please do not project your inner racism, or ignorance onto me; there is no need for that. I have previously written here that I do not know and do not care if the author of the VM was Turkish by nationality. I even wrote that the author could be from minority peoples, hence why defining the dialect spoken might be difficult. The VM author does not have to be Turkish because I am Turkish. On the contrary, the author may not be Turkish, and whether they are or not does not matter to me. Here, I am only showing the Turkish words and sentences in the VM content. Moreover, I demonstrate the overlaps in phonetic structures by referencing dictionary pages. You do not have the right to say that I am prioritizing nationalism in this case. If you do not think this way and believe that I am fabricating the Turkish presence in the VM texts just because I am a nationalist and that everything is a lie, then do not read my comments. If the admin thinks the same way, then close my account on the page.

4- Those who lack the knowledge level or intelligence to discuss specific details scientifically and within tolerable limits about VM, based on linguistics and history, please do not communicate with me. This topic is not suitable for your comments. It is necessary to talk with some intelligence, evidence, findings, documents, and information. If you do not have these, do not even comment here. Look, there are many other topics on this platform.

If no one asks me for a while about the VM's Turkish content in a civilized and thoughtful way and does not investigate the findings seriously and according to scientific acceptances, I will stop commenting on this platform and close my account myself. It's that simple. No need to complicate this. Those who write rude comments here calling me a liar and claiming everyone knows it do not need to read my comments anyway. If you do not believe there is a possibility for the VM content to be in Turkish, why are you reading the comments on this page?

Please show respect if you expect respect. Those who act disrespectfully should either not read these comments or not be upset when they receive a response.

(18-07-2024, 10:19 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a master's degree in Historical Linguistics - I know how these things work. The language is reconstructed because these peoples (like most cultures at the time) did not write. So the only way we have to reconstruct this language is by comparing its descendants.

I am getting reports left and right from members calling out your posts.
I literally have the degree required to understand what you are talking about, and all I see is a fringe theory driven by a pre- WW II nationalistic agenda.
You are the biggest fan of ChatGPT on this forum and it literally calls your theory politically driven.

I will have no more of this on the forum. One more and you're banned.

Dear Koen G,

I am very well aware of how the "reconstruct" work you mentioned is done. This involves the researcher incorporating their own inherent culture and language into the work. So, you have effectively created a new language. Moreover, it is not scientific to ignore opposing theories while working in the field of science.


Additionally, if you are the admin in this situation, I expect you not to remain silent towards someone who has called me a liar and claimed that everyone knows it, and to explain the rules of ethics and discussion etiquette.

Also, do not threaten me. I have written about what I can and cannot pay attention to. Go talk to your friends now. I am giving you 48 hours. Either ban or close my account immediately now or close it after 48 hours. Or establish balance in the discussion and show that you are trying to prevent one-sided disrespect.

Those who are interested in following the developments can do so on the website You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
From now on, I am giving you and the page administration 48 hours. If you do not criticize those who exhibit unfair and inappropriate behavior towards me within this period, I will close my account myself.

Thanks