(10-05-2022, 06:10 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Ahmet
I went to your site and had a quick look.
It's not exactly that I'm impressed, and especially not when I saw the banana. bana-ne.....sana ne. 
But to be fair I'll have a closer look at it during the holidays at the end of the month. Then I'll also have my private Turkish interpreter with me.
Interestingly, I'm also right where the Ertruscans come from. Greek islands off Izmir.
I will also brush up on my Turkish.
As you can see, I am well prepared for Turkish. Holiday home in Kusadasi and married to a Turkish woman for over 20 years. (University of Istanbul)
Dear Tentakulus,
If the word "banana" were Turkish, you would not see it as "banane". Because this form is against the phonemic harmony (vowel harmony rule) of Turkish. If there is -a-a- in the word, the ending must be -a, but never -e.
If you are going to get information from your relatives who speak Turkish, it would be better to ask them if they know or not know "the Turkish phonetic rules".
In addition, the Turkish islands near Izmir may be in Greece today, but they may not always remain so and return to their original historical owners. Because you may not be aware that those islands were conditionally entrusted to the Greeks by the Turks, provided that they remained unarmed. Since the Greek state is arming the islands, it may have to return the trust at any time. Fortunately, I think this issue can be solved more easily than reading the Voynich texts. 
Be careful that the island does not change hands while you are swimming in the open island on vacation.
I am kidding. Politics is not my field, but nowadays, many lawyers on Turkish televisions talking about historic documents that prove what I said.
Let me know if you come to Kuşadası. My summer house is in Datça.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
So they're actually not that far from each other. Maybe you would like to come and see the Datça peninsula and I would be happy to host you and your wife. Although it is not clear what the politicians did or will do, I personally think that we are brothers with the Greek people and that our culture is very close. In fact, if the politicians stop fighting for their interests, the two communities will live in peace like two brothers. But there may be those on both sides who benefit from the tension.
I wish you a good holiday. If you are in Turkey and want to meet, send me a private message and I will give you my mobile number.
Thanks
(10-05-2022, 11:04 AM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Ahmet
EVA and ATA are different things and cant be compared.
ATA takes a set of glyphs and assigns letters to them to form a plain text.
EVA takes a set of glyphs and gives them another name, in latin letters, so the glyphs can be reproduced easily in a different format. It is the same as writting chinese with latin letters, people dont understand chinesse pictograms but understand latin letters.
What is important is the set of ghyps, ATA uses a wide set of glyphs.
You have said too that the Voynich is not a cipher because it hasnt been solved. There are computational approaches to solve complex ciphers with homophonic-polyphonic-nulls, though these techniques are in development and the most complex of them need to be solved manually, see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The Voychenese structure of bigrams-trigrams is compatible with the ciphers shown in this article, so a cipher is possible.
Dear Sali,
If a glyph is a hieroglyphic character or symbol or a pictograph, there is no any glyph in ATA abc transkription. I never compare EVA and ATA because EVA never work to read but ATA works very well to read.
You still don't understand that ATA transcription contains more Latin characters that compared to EVA. So ATA proposes more Latin alphabet symbols in the same visual format. In addition, ATA reads all syllable characters with the same single rule.
That's why you will continue paddling in the EVA boat in imaginary waters without reaching any island.
If a door is locked and you need to open it, you must use the correct key. EVA is the wrong key and no matter how hard you try you will just waste time. ATA has already opened that door, and linguists are slowly starting to get through.
So you may be one of the last hundred people to realize that you are comparing two things, one real result and the other imaginary.
Don't be in a hurry, please keep rowing. Even if you come back from the Greek islands, come to our side and have a Turkish coffee and Turkish delight.
Thanks
(10-05-2022, 04:35 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (10-05-2022, 11:04 AM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Ahmet
EVA and ATA are different things and cant be compared.
ATA takes a set of glyphs and assigns letters to them to form a plain text.
EVA takes a set of glyphs and gives them another name, in latin letters, so the glyphs can be reproduced easily in a different format. It is the same as writting chinese with latin letters, people dont understand chinesse pictograms but understand latin letters.
What is important is the set of ghyps, ATA uses a wide set of glyphs.
You have said too that the Voynich is not a cipher because it hasnt been solved. There are computational approaches to solve complex ciphers with homophonic-polyphonic-nulls, though these techniques are in development and the most complex of them need to be solved manually, see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The Voychenese structure of bigrams-trigrams is compatible with the ciphers shown in this article, so a cipher is possible.
Dear Sali,
If a glyph is a hieroglyphic character or symbol or a pictograph, there is no any glyph in ATA abc transkription. I never compare EVA and ATA because EVA never work to read but ATA works very well to read.
You still don't understand that ATA transcription contains more Latin characters that compared to EVA. So ATA proposes more Latin alphabet symbols in the same visual format. In addition, ATA reads all syllable characters with the same single rule.
That's why you will continue paddling in the EVA boat in imaginary waters without reaching any island.
If a door is locked and you need to open it, you must use the correct key. EVA is the wrong key and no matter how hard you try you will just waste time. ATA has already opened that door, and linguists are slowly starting to get through.
So you may be one of the last hundred people to realize that you are comparing two things, one real result and the other imaginary.
Don't be in a hurry, please keep rowing. Even if you come back from the Greek islands, come to our side and have a Turkish coffee and Turkish delight.
Thanks
@Ahmet
I will keep trying to explain to you what is EVA and what is not, though I havent any hope that after so many years you will be able to understand it, or you dont want to understand it because it is better to support your theory.
When you say: ATA transcription contains more Latin characters that compared to EVA. What does it mean?
EVA doesnt serve to read. ATA reads all with same rules, but the most of it is unintelligible.
EVA is not a key. EVA is a group of row materials to make keys.
When I started my research on the cipher system I didnt even know of EVA, I followed my own path.
You have buillt a big boat, your own Titanic, sooner or later the iceberg will find you. Are you ready for it?
(10-05-2022, 04:35 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's why you will continue paddling in the EVA boat in imaginary waters without reaching any island.
Ahmet, the biggest advantage of the EVA transcription is its availability, unlike yours. In my opinion, all people ask for is the referencing of the words examined: page X, line Y, word "abcd.." in EVA corresponds to "efgk' in ATA or whatever, so that they can find their way around.
Peach trees don't bloom like that - from stem tips. And the leaves are long, without that rounded shape.
(10-05-2022, 07:36 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Ahmet
I will keep trying to explain to you what is EVA and what is not, though I havent any hope that after so many years you will be able to understand it, or you dont want to understand it because it is better to support your theory.
When you say: ATA transcription contains more Latin characters that compared to EVA. What does it mean?
EVA doesnt serve to read. ATA reads all with same rules, but the most of it is unintelligible.
EVA is not a key. EVA is a group of row materials to make keys.
When I started my research on the cipher system I didnt even know of EVA, I followed my own path.
You have buillt a big boat, your own Titanic, sooner or later the iceberg will find you. Are you ready for it?
Dear Sali,
What does it matter what you attribute to EVA or how you use it if the sound equivalents of the signs are chosen there mostly incorrectly? After all, EVA is used as an alphabet transcription by those trying to read texts. It has no other value. Even its name expresses an expectation as a shortened form of the European Voynich Alphabet. Without knowing whether the author is European or not and without understanding what language the content is in, it's just a preconditioning statement that hasn't worked so far for reading.
I respect the efforts made over the years with EVA. But at some point someone had to tell for all that this didn't work to solve this riddle, and it was me.
ATA is alphabet transcription. It is very difficult to call ATA transcription wrong because more than 80% of the signs are nothing but Latin alphabet signs. As I said, let's put the EVA and ATA tables side by side and see which one contains more Latin alphabet signs. If this table doesn't explain anything to you, there's no point in discussing it with you. Likewise, there is no need for you to waste your energy and time and inform me about EVA.
Thanks
(10-05-2022, 07:38 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (10-05-2022, 04:35 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's why you will continue paddling in the EVA boat in imaginary waters without reaching any island.
Ahmet, the biggest advantage of the EVA transcription is its availability, unlike yours. In my opinion, all people ask for is the referencing of the words examined: page X, line Y, word "abcd.." in EVA corresponds to "efgk' in ATA or whatever, so that they can find their way around.
Dear Novacna,
Working with EVA transcription is like looking outside for a key that someone left in a dark cave 600 years ago, just because the outside environment (outdoor space) is illuminated. Because it is difficult to find the key in the dark and you always have an expectation that you can see everything outside. But the key was not lost in the area where we can see it with searching in the EVA area. If you do not search in the right place, what kind of result should you expect?
Please put side by side together that transcriptions suggested by EVA and ATA, and look them again? Which do you think is more likely to help us?
If your answer is still EVA, then of course I don't need to tell you anything abaut the ATA again.
Thanks
Dear Ahmet
I will try again using your terminology. EVA doesnt assign any letter to signs to form a plain text. EVA takes a sign of Voychenese and gives it a name, d a i n and so on. It just renames signs to allow people to refer to them in an easier way, using latin letters, maybe if they had used numbers to rename the signs you werent so confused. EVA is not an alphabet transcription.
You compare ATA alphabet transcription with EVA rename of signs, and both things are different. EVA is not an alphabet transcription, when it renames a sign as d it doest mean that this sign is a D and is read like a D.
(11-05-2022, 10:59 AM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If your answer is still EVA, then of course I don't need to tell you anything abaut the ATA again.
Ahmet, you like long answers and I prefer short and precise references.