The Voynich Ninja

Addendum:

I already see 2 different languages in the VM manuscript, bringing a third language into play needs and explaining it convincingly is more than challenging.

[attachment=5914]  SOYCSU (cold water)

We read this word (SOYCSU) on page 77r. 

600 Years ago, while writing this word, the author wrote the second-to-last letter in both -S- and -ANS- readable formats. The bottom circle of the letter S is filled with a dot. This is the tamga sign read with the sound value -AN-. This tamga sign is written with the letter S intertwined with the tamga at the bottom. Therefore, we can also read the word as well as like SOYCANSU near SOYCSU. 

SOYCSU format, which is the first reading here, is close to the phonetic value of the words we sing in the form of SOĞUK+SU today. 

So it's a compound word. The word cold has already been recorded in different forms in different dialects of the Turkish language. 
Forms of the word pronounced in Old Turkic (ET): soguk, cold, sauh, soğuh, souh, sowuh were recorded. Now, thanks to this manuscript, we will have recorded the "soyc" form in the dialect of the author. The English equivalent of this word (SOYC+SU / COLD+SU) can be translated as "COLD+WATER". The second-to-last letter of the word can be considered a syllabic combination of a tamga sign with a simple vowel. So much so that the author most probably specifically wanted us to read this word in both ways. Because she/he probably meant to show his intelligence for a special reader by using the possibilities that like this special alphabet created for her/him. Thus, the spelling of the word SOYCANSU was formed by consciously combining three words in the form of SOY+CAN+SU. In fact, since the word CANSU in Turkish language has a name and has some meaning content, that we can also evaluate this word as SOY+CANSU. In both cases, the meaning remains unchanged. 

If you look at the word CANSU in the dictionary, you will see that one of its meanings is explained as LIFE WATER. You can see the meanings of the words SOĞUK, SOYUH, SOY, CAN, SU, CANSU and CAN SUYU on the web-link pages below. 

Thus, regardless of how the words SOYCANSU / SOY+CANSU / SOY+CAN+SU are written, we can translate this word as "species life giving water" and/or "variety of life giving water". 

These words have not been seen in compound word form before. Like some other words in this manuscript, this spelling will probably be recorded for the first time. 

See: 
[attachment=5915] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[attachment=5916] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   
[attachment=5917] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   
[attachment=5918] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  
[attachment=5919] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.    
[attachment=5920] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

Note: The name CANSU is also noted as a female/girl name according to the dictionary of Turkish names.

(08-10-2021, 06:07 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Addendum:

[I already see 2 different languages in the VM manuscript, bringing a third language into play needs and explaining it convincingly is more than challenging.]

Since the readings were not completed, we can only make an estimate based on the early results. Also, we already know that some of this words are borrowed words mostly from Arabic and Persian. In addition, our predictions about language are independent of the nationality of the author. In other words, there is no finding that we can call the author Turkish, and there is no evidence to the contrary. It doesn't matter to me nationality of the author. The author seems to have chosen the Turkish language as her/his main writing language.

(07-10-2021, 10:02 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.SAFSU 
The word SAFSU is read on page 75v. 

I find this interesting because from my perspective this part of the page is talking about the replenishment of Lake Urmia, an endorheic salt lake, with fresh water from various rivers. Today we know that Lake Urmia is fed by 13 rivers, that there are 10 depicted may simply mean that some were dry or not included, ie lesser known, or did not yet exist for whatever reasons. I believe this is why the lake itself is painted green, to match the mineralized aspect of salt seas which in the vms are also generally painted green. In the blue section, which i think is an alternate representation of the same lake, there are two finials which correspond to the two dormant volcanoes found in the lake, one is intact, one is broken up, which is explains the different motifs on the finials, and which contribute to the mineralization of the water when it reaches the lake. 

The other lake I believe is Lake Sevan, a freshwater lake to the north, therefore painted blue. Its placement below lake Urmia is i think an obfuscation, with orientations not aligning between the two also making it more difficult to "see" them.  The page before is i think a representation of the Caspian sea, the river at the top of this page seems to lead to or from the previous page, this would be the Araxes or Aras river, which has relationships to both lakes as it runs between them in reality.



On the map, the Aras is highlighted, half of Lake Urmia is at the bottom, Lake Sevan is to the north of it. The section of the river between Lake Urmia and the Caspian sea is indeed a right angled shape.

If you look at the map diagonally from the southwest, or bottom left corner on the bottom, the river and Lake Urmia are analogously shaped and oriented to the vms drawing, with an analogouly oriented and sized representation of Sevan added below instead of to the left as it would be in that orientation, and which would otherwise be off the page. Streams drawn in the vms appear not to be literal and identify connections between water sources only. I think it is saying that the waters of all these places arise from similar sources, ie precipitation from the sky (clouds) or condensation from the mountains (clouds or fog) (distilled water), hence the cloudbands, that then descends from mountain streams into the rivers and lakes.

The next page that should be after You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is f79r, which outlines the Euphrates and Tigris rivers going to the Persian Gulf. Those rivers arise near where the Araxes does also. Its facing page continues from there to Gulfs of Gurjurat, then straight across the Arabian Sea to The Gulf of Aden, which leads to the Red Sea. I believe Quire 13 traverses the entirety of the old ecumene (with Gurjurat as its eastern extent) by contiguous water flow. 

Therefore your reading of these words to do with water seem appropriate to me, especially the specifics thereof.

(08-10-2021, 06:08 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  SOYCSU (cold water)

We read this word (SOYCSU) on page 77r. 

I believe this section of the page to be referring to the Danube delta, from a route which starts at the river's source north of the Alps. That the nymph is male seems to indicate there are two ways to get there, this happens in at least another two instances in conjunction with spindles. It is then duplicated after following the alternate route through the Aegean and Marmora seas to the Black Sea at the bottom of f82r where the nymph holds a spindle behind her to also indicate the alternate water route back to a place we have seen mentioned previously.

Covered water and cold water both seem appropriate to describe this northern river delta, so again i find this interesting.

[quote="joben" pid='47511' dateline='1633711005']

Hi Joben,

Yes, I think you are right on this detail. However, our aim is not to increase the interest in our theory or to prevent this interest from falling. Our main aim is to express our ideas based on our own work. In fact, the reason we came to these issues started with the claim that we named our alphabet transcription and/or the VM alphabet as Turkish, and we were told that we couldn't do that. In reality, we have not named a transcript anywhere but on our own website. So I don't know who did this, but it's not us. We named the alphabet and transcription as ATA. The abbreviation T here does not mean Turkish. It means TEAM. Anyway. In terms of EVA, this is a subject that is the choice of the person who named it. Since we were asked why we use the name-description of "Turkish" as a noun, we have given the example with the name EVA so that the person asking this question can make an analogy comparison.

In other words, there is no logical difference between calling this alphabet as TURKISH or calling it as EUROPEAN. We reminded the subject of EVA when the perception was created as if we used a name TURKISH, but the claimer himself probably did not comparing in analogy by doing empathy in same way. In this sense, someone using the name EVA should not have anything to say to someone who may call this alphabet TURKISH in the future.

As far as I know, EVA is the abbreviation of European Voynich Alphabet. Moreover, there is no data about whether the author is European or not. We say that the author used Turkish in the content of the work.

Actually, I don't think that those who named EVA have bad intentions and are intentional. However, saying European or Turkish is actually two examples in the same situation. And seeing one of this as logical, while the other is treated as an irrational is not to be understandable. In my opinion this kind of thoughts are only can be named as "without empathy products".

So we cannot look at these issues with a double standard. We just have to use the way of science. For example, those who tell us to show sentence analysis are completely right. We've already done that. Since they are in Turkish and written by us by hand and taking notes on paper, it is necessary to first digitize them and then translate them into English. But of course we will do that and share in English too.

Thanks

@Ahmet Ardıç
You know how it goes with mathematics, if the parameters are wrong, then all of them are wrong.
Mathemathics is not necessarily an argument.

(08-10-2021, 06:41 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote="Ahmet Ardıç" pid='47505' dateline='1633640547']
SAFSU 
The word SAFSU is read on page 75v. 

Hi Linda, 
I never thought about it from the perspective you give examples.
Thanks for your opinion

(08-10-2021, 07:24 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Ahmet Ardıç
You know how it goes with mathematics, if the parameters are wrong, then all of them are wrong.
Mathemathics is not necessarily an argument.

You are completely right about that math related detail. 

We think that the ATA key we use reflects the reality as much as possible. Moreover, there is no chance that the words we read (the words which are matching the drawings and especially which are phonetic value has not changed in 600 years) are the wrong parameters. In this sense, the probability calculations made for them give us an idea that we are on the right track. Moreover, full sentences matching the sentence structure of Turkish have already been read. 

As I said, I'll share them one by one when those are ready in English.

Thanks

(07-10-2021, 09:48 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Tavie and others came very close to pinpoint the location of the script and language, Petersen pointed out grammatical peculiarities that not even Dr. Bax noticed, Koen has done very good job of matching religious overlay on mythological images in the VM, to mention just a few.

I do wish I had done this, but sadly not (so far)!