The Voynich Ninja

[attachment=5923] ÖFLÖR / ÖFİLÖR  (Marchantia polymorpha / Umbrella Liverwort) or (Hepaticae / Bryophyta) --one of these two names, as explained below--

[attachment=5924] 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(Source of this photo; by John Hilty, 2016-2020 
<https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/mosses/moss_index.html#umb_liverwort>  
& <https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/mosses/plants/umb_liverwort.html>)


> The word ÖFLÖR/ÖFİLÖR is a compound word as ÖFİL+LÖR (< ÖFİLÖR). 

The phonetic value of the first word ÖFLÖR / ÖFİLÖR has very close phonetic value of todays words ÖYFE+LÖR.
 
ÖYFE (ak+ciğer > white + liver) means “lung”  

ÖYFE: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

It is calling as "akciğer" in Turkish. However, the Turkish equivalent of the English word "liver" is "kara+ciğer" (black + liver). And the word "ak+ciğer" (white + liver (lung)) was created by combining two words. Those are AK (white) and CİĞER (liver). 

(In some dialects of the Turkish language, the word CİĞER  is used in the sense of both "liver" and "lung" among the people. Since we don't know the author's dialect yet, let's save this info now as a note.) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
 
The word ÖYFE may have probably evolved from a reflection sound word (onomatopoeic word) such as “ÖF, ÖYF, ÜF, HOF, HÖF” > OF. And this onomatopoeic word root may possibly have been derived from the sound of "air blowing" (by lungs reflected-sound). Such as root ÜF- / ÜF-LER / üflemek (to blow / blowing). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

These words ÖYF-E (lung) and ÜFLE (üflemek / to blow) are words that have close phonetic value to each other. 

Therefore, they (ÖYFE and ÜFLE) probably evolved from this ancient onomatopoeic common root phonetic-value decomposition.
 
The word +LÖR (next to ÖYFE+) means (LÖR+OTU) “Su kıyılarında biten bir bitki” (the plant which growing on around water shores). In the Black Sea region in Turkey, there are also those who call it as "LÖR+OT-U". You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

As I explained before, the word OT-U is derived from the root of the word OT- by taking the suffix -U, and this word is also used in the meanings of "vegetable, green-stuff" besides its various meanings. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
 
When we search the dictionaries to see if there is a plant that is directly related to the name of this plant in the dialects of today's Turkey Turkish, we come across the name "CİĞER OTU". You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

In this case, the meaning of the word "ÖYFE LÖR" can be translated as "LIVER GRASS / LIVER VEGETABLE" and/or "near water shores growing air blowing plant" in English. (If we translate this plant name from its Turkish root meaning directly to English (1/1 from its "ÖYFE LÖR" name root-meaning-content)).
 
So, may be botanists tell us more about if there is any connection or any logic to give this plant such name as "LUNG GRASS and/or LUNG VEGETABLE". But we can say that the name of this plant is formed by combining these two words (ÖYFE+LÖR) together.
 
When we search the dictionaries to see if there is any synonym plant name, than we come across the name "CİĞER OTU" and "CİĞER OTLARI" (Lat. "Marchantia polymorpha" / a species of moss from the Marchantiaceae family / Umbrella Liverwort family (Marchantiaceae) and "Hepaticae" ) in dictionaries. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
 
In other words, we see two different plant names in dictionaries: CİĞER OTU (Marchantia polymorpha) and CİĞER OTLARI (Hepaticae / Bryophyta). Probably, botanists who would like to look at the plant/moss drawing made where this word is written in the manuscript, may be able to tell which of these the author means or drawn when she/he says ÖFE+LÖR / ÖYFE+LÖR.
 
See:
 ÖYFE  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
 CİĞER (LIVER) 1. Akciğerlerle karaciğerin ortak adı. (1. Common name for lungs and liver). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
 CİĞER OTU (Marchantia polymorpha) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
 CİĞER OTLARI (Hepaticae / Bryophyta) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
 LÖR (lör+otu): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  
 
 Helpful resources if you need more details: 
 - ÜFLEMEK You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  
 - LIVER You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  
 - The name LIVER is connected with the word LIVE You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
 
I would also like to note that the English word LIVER and the word CİĞER (CİYER / CİER / *CİVER / *İVER) seem close to each other in terms of their phonetic value. This type of sound changes may also have been experienced by word evolution in the language that received the word. Moreover, the word CİĞER in our language can be used in the sense of both lung and liver among the people.

CİER (CİĞER) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   
CİYER (CİĞER) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Note: Due to some of the words used by the author, it is possible to say that she/he may have made some experiments with various plants while she/he was alive. Among these, there are studies such as grafting/combining plants with each other. And among the plants that the author is interested in, there are different species, including mosses, vegetables, and trees.

This word can be seen for f95r1 and f95r2, the plants are not liverworts.

[attachment=5925] SÇSU  

SÇSU (SICAKSU / HOTWATER, >  "hot water" and "thermal water")

The author not only used this complex alphabet to make the texts difficult to read, she/he also abbreviated many words. We can see one of the typical example of these abbreviations on page 77r. And we can see that, the author drew a "closed water channel" with water discharge T-connection parts for several places in the drawing on page 77r, and wrote some words beside this channel parts, being separate from each other. 


One of these words is the SÇSU abbreviation-word. 

This word was written between two of the water discharge sections in the water channel drawing. 
Earlier, we have read the word meaning "cold water" in another water outlet section of the same channel. 
Also, just next to this closed water channel drawing, another word we were read as like "closed waterway".

The word SÇSU is an abbreviation which that obtained by two combining words. The ending part of the word is the Turkish word SU (+SU), which means WATER in English. The first word (which is the root of the word) was written as SÇ (SÇ+) abbreviation. This word pronounced as SICAK (HOT, HOT SPRINGS) in Turkey Turkish today. But the author should probably be pronouncing this word as SIÇAK or SÇAK. Because she/he shortened it as SÇ+.

As with many other words, this word (SICAK) has different forms in different dialects of the Turkish language, and the pronunciation of SICAK is one of them. In the Yadigâr-ı İbni Şerif manuscript before 1412, this word is used as "isicaḳ su". In some other medieval manuscripts, this word was written as "issicak", "sicak", "ısıcağı" and as "ısıcağına" (ısıcağ-) too.The word SICAK/SIÇAK has evolved from the word "issicek" and "issıcak" (hot,  temperature, thermal springs, etc.) form in Turkey Turkish. The Turkish word is derived from the Turkish word ISSI/İSSİ (ISI/İSİ), (which has the same meaning in Turkey Turkish), with the suffix -çAk (-ÇAK). You can see the detailed information in this dictionary link: 
[attachment=5926]  
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

In other words, while this word evolved from ISSIÇAK to ISIÇAK form, and the word have been lost its first vowel ( I -) and took the form of  SIÇAK and then change as SICAK in time.

You can see the meaning content of the word ISSI-ÇAK (SIÇAK / SICAK) on the following pages (such as "hot" and "thermal / thermal spring"): 

[attachment=5927]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

As a result, the author's used many abbreviations, and she/he doing this probably must have been made especially to make writing more difficult to read. The author used the word SÇSU. This word was used to say SÇAK+SU / ISSIÇAK+SU in this abbreviation form.

(10-10-2021, 10:41 AM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[This word can be seen for f95r1 and f95r2, the plants are not liverworts.] 

We read this plant name on page f101v1-102r2. I don't know, maybe I misspelled the page name.

[attachment=5928]

> ÖFLÖR / ÖFİLÖR: ÖYFE+LÖR "Marchantia polymorpha / Umbrella Liverwort" or "Hepaticae / Bryophyta", or "a kind of beautiful looking grass that grows on the shores of the water" as described in the dictionary. <

Frankly, some of the plants whose names we have read in this manuscript resemble to some plants that are meant to be expressed. But, such as like you, we did not resemble some plant drawings with their original images too. In addition, we could not find photos of some of the plant names we read in VM. If there are botanists who know the Turkish language and work on Old Turkish, these people can make more inferences. In other words, this type of research actually should be some team work for more than one area.  

On the other hand;
1- The components of the plant name ÖYFELÖR (ÖYFE and LÖR are) mentioned separately in today's dictionaries. In other words, a compound word in the form of ÖFE+LÖR does not exist in existing dictionaries. But both of these (and some synonyms for this plant names) are seen as the names of separate plants. For example, the meaning of the word LÖR (lör grass) in dictionaries as like "a kind of beautiful looking grass that grows on the shores of the water" expressed in the description.
 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Note: Since I shared the web-links of dictionaries where the meanings of other words can be seen in my previous comment where I explained this word, I did not feel the need to share them here again.)

But we could not find the Latin equivalent of the name of this plant (LÖR / LÖROTU). When we couldn't find the Latin name, we couldn't find the images, because when we search for it in Turkish on google images, images of a cheese type whose Turkish name is LOR come up. So any plant images are not coming up. This is due to the fact that the images of some plant species have not yet been uploaded to the google system. In this case, we are investigating whether the word ÖYFE itself and its synonyms (meaning lung and liver) are used as plant names. Normally, finding plant names with these names (ÖYFE+LÖR) is already a very small possibility. But surprisingly, the name of the plant we are discussing is written as a compound name by the author. Both parts of this name compound that adjoining each other, turn out to be the name of some separate plants. This is actually a good surprise in the probability space.

Later we saw that one of these components is mentioned in two different plant species. Moreover, the Latin names of these two plants are shown in dictionaries. We compared the results with the author's drawing and choose the most similar. By the way, the other name (+LÖR) cannot be included in this search. Because there is no image for LÖR although this plant name shown in dictionaries. That's why we say that Turkish-speaking botanists and linguists should make this comparison together. We have shown that these two name-words overlap with three different plant names. Matching should be done by a botanist who also knows what the LÖR plant looks like.

2- The author did makes some experiments/works by cutting different parts of different plants and joining/graft them to different roots or plant stems. Then she/he must probably be naming them herself/himself. Remember, I said that there are different plant names in the compound name of the word we are examining. We have already shown them in dictionaries. (We do not know whether these experiments by the author were successful. In other words, even if she/he was not successful, she/he may have drawn her/his expectations about the new species that will emerge, as completely imaginary.) In other words, she/he may have drawn this plant by imagining what kind of plant will emerge when she/he puts two different plants together. (So that's a possibility, and I think the author may be was trying to root some algae by transporting them to her/his made environment she/he had prepared in the land area.)

3- The author is a traveler. And she/he is not traveling together with the hundreds of plants she/he draws. Therefore, most of the time she/he must be drawing real plants as much as she/he can remember in his memory. Therefore, for some plant drawings, it may not partially coincide with the photographs we have. However, we think that she/he drew some other plants realistically and those are matching with the photographs we have.

4- The author's ability to paint may not have given her/him the ability to draw realistically.

5- We think that the author's purpose was to encode some military information in writing as a first target. Therefore, we guess that the author was not necessarily concerned about drawing plants realistically and that's why may be she/he not care much about that drawing was realistic or not just because of this was not primary purpose.

6-Some times in Turkic languages, the same name can be used to describe different plants in different dialects of Turkish. (There are linguistic reasons for this and I will not go into detail here.) As an example; The name ŞALAK can be used as the name of melon in one regions, but it means watermelon, or cucumber, and/or zucchini for some other regions.

What is clear is that there are three plant names here, and we have not found the Latin name and image of one of them. Even if we have all of this information, another plant may have been named by this name in a certain region. For this reason, botanists and linguists will have to look at whether there may be other plants with the same name in Turkish.

We certainly never target or promise that we will eliminate all unknowns parts about VM on our own.

It should be noted that we are sharing about the early results of an ongoing study. Of course, some details need to be checked over and over again.

Sorry for my broken English and thank you for reading.

Kind regards,

SUSAM (Sesamum indicum / SESAME)

EXAMPLE OF A "MATCHING WORDS" & A SHORT SENTENCE from f14v (the sesame page): 
[attachment=5929] 

[attachment=5935] [attachment=5936] 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Growing plant, Photograph by: CANTIQ UNIQUE (Creative Commons License) <http://tropical.theferns.info/image.php?id=Sesamum+indicum>
V. SESAME LEAF DESCRIPTORS (Sesamum indicum L.) Working paper 1, March 2018, Project: Compiling sesame research, Author: Derald Ray Langham, Sesame Research, LLC (the photos from: page 54, 55, 56)

[attachment=5939] Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

[attachment=5941] F is a wild sesame seed, and E is the fruit dehiscing (Source: Part of the "Alamy Stock Photo Image ID:REK65X" - By Rendle, A. B. (Alfred Barton)): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It is understood that sesame seeds have different types of leaves, as well as different types of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. 

[attachment=5940] Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
I have written here before that the author made the SAZAK tree drawing without showing the leaves. Apparently, the author drew the SESAME capsule as a cross-section or with the outer shell/membrane cleaned. Because probably the author wanted to show the sesame seeds/grains found in this part of the plant. As I mentioned before, the author adds/crosses various plants from various places. Moreover, he probably drew them not by looking, but by what he remembered from his memory. You remember that I explained the possible reason for this. 

On the f.14-v page, the word SUSAM (SESAME) is made in two places. In one of them, the word SUSAM (SESAME) is used in a short three-word sentence. However, while the author was writing this word (SUSAM), she/he wrote the first syllable of the word separately from the whole (such as SU SAM). Actually, we know the reason why the author did this. The author must have wanted his articles to be especially difficult to read. Numerous examples of this have been noted by us throughout the VM texts. (We have already explained the reasons why the author writes in a way that makes the texts difficult to read.) The author writes by dividing some words and shortening some words to make the texts difficult to read.

[attachment=5930]

You can check the meaning of the word SUSAM from this dictionary link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Also, the first letter of the first word of this page is a compound alphabet character. This compound letter is pronounced as İYC. Today, we pronounce this word as İÇ in Turkey Turkish. The word İÇ has many meanings. The English equivalent of one of them is the word CORE.

[attachment=5931]  İÇ: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

[attachment=5932]

You know that punctuation marks are not used throughout the VM manuscript. In other words, there are no dot marks at the end of sentences or commas between words. But for someone who reads the VM words, it can be understood where the sentences end and the other begins. Also, some of the paragraphs are written in a poetry-like form. Today, in many cases, we do not use punctuation marks that indicate the end of sentences in paragraphs written in the form of poetry. We predict that in the future linguists will be able to tell which literary genre these paragraphs belong to.

Thus, the sentence we read here is "UCU SESAME ÇİÇEĞİ".

[attachment=5933]
The suffixes -U at the end of the word UC-U and -İ at the end of the word ÇİÇEY-İ are the suffixes that point to the object. Therefore, this sentence can be translated into English as follows: "The tip-part of it (plant) is the sesame flower." )

The root of the word UÇU is the word UÇ-. In some dialects of the Turkish language, this is also pronounced in the UC form. You can see the meaning of the word (tip, end) at this link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
If you look at the spelling of this word UC in the dictionary, it shows that it can also be used in the form UÇ there: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The author wrote the word ÇİÇEYİ in the form ÇÇYU. Today, although it is said that this word should be written in the form of ÇİÇEĞİ as a spelling rule in modern Turkish, it is still a common situation to be pronounced and written in the form of ÇİÇEYİ among the people. In addition to this, there are different pronunciations of this word in different dialects of the Turkish language. You can see some of them in the links of the following dictionary pages. Such as You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. etc.

It is also known that the word was written in the form of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. 
[attachment=5938]

In this sentence, the author used this word as an abbreviation and in the form of ÇÇYÜ. The sound -U/-Ü/-I/-İ at the end is chosen according to the vowel harmony of the word and this is the suffix that points to the object as a word suffix. We have detected in many words read in the VM manuscript that the suffix used by the author 600 years ago in the form of -U/-Ü has changed to -I/-İ sound in today's modern Turkish.

Also, when you put the words here in google translator, the machine often cannot distinguish between You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. spelling etc. 
[attachment=5934]

In fact, the abbreviations made by the author and the splitting of words do not create a great reading difficulty for careful readers who know the language well. For example, if we give an exaggerated example in English, I think you can read these sentences;

"theauthor was made en cod ing in vm texts tomade the coded part of the te xts can not be se en easily just like thesame reason that she developed this vm alphbt"

As you can see, you also noticed that I do not use punctuation at the end of the sentences too. Although it is a somewhat confusing way of writing, I think when you look carefully, you can understand where the sentence should end.

Note: In this example sentence we have given, I have made the examples of splitting and joining words in a slightly exaggerated way. The author does not do these with similar intensity to my example. The author did this with less intensity and in certain sentences compared to my example. She/He wrote many sentences in the normal way without breaking the words. The author has made such corrections throughout the writing where he thinks it is necessary, but not in every sentence. The sentences manipulated by the author in this way are read in Turkish in at least two different ways, and they are written in a way that each reading style gains a different meaning. It may be more useful to understand the detail I am trying to write here if we find examples that better express what the author has done in English.

(10-10-2021, 07:49 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We read this plant name on page f101v1-102r2. I don't know, maybe I misspelled the page name

Thanks for your explanation. I mean, there are two more places for this word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I believe many of the words are most likely not specific to a page. So, it must be checked whether this word emerged by chance or also works on other pages. The correctness of the meanings and their connection with the figures should be examined, so as not to waste a lot of time. It is a multi-branched path that can go astray without checkpoints.

(12-10-2021, 03:05 PM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(10-10-2021, 07:49 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We read this plant name on page f101v1-102r2. I don't know, maybe I misspelled the page name

[I mean, there are two more places for this word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I believe many of the words are most likely not specific to a page. So, it must be checked whether this word emerged by chance or also works on other pages. The correctness of the meanings and their connection with the figures should be examined, so as not to waste a lot of time. It is a multi-branched path that can go astray without checkpoints.]

Hi Motiee,

Should we expect a word to occur only once in a 240-page manuscript? I don't think so, of course. The author was shows P/F sounds with a single sign, A/E sounds with another sign, and O/Ö sounds with another single sign, with the special alphabet she/he uses. Moreover, if the different spellings of the word have different equivalents in Turkish, then, of course, it should be expected that more than one reading of the written word is mentioned in this book with different meanings.

But now let's look at a sequence where the word you're pointing at appears on the other page where that word occurs. I am looking at this sequence of the words for the first time after your pointing here.
[attachment=5943]
The reason I call it a string of words is because I don't know if it's a punctuation mark, so I'm in a hurry to call it a sentence. The words we will examine are:

The VM Text line in Latin.: 
ÖFLÖR/ÖFİLÖR       ÇSEĞN  ÇÖPLEĞN  DÖLGÖSÜ    DÖLÜ  ÇCSU     PÇCSÜ     ÇCSU    APOŞ

Let's combine some words split, and break down some of the combined words as well. And let's complete the abbreviations according to the Turkish vowel harmony rule and rewrite the 600 years old words in todays Turkey Turkish:

Öyfe+lör çisen (çiselenen) çöple (çöp ile) döl gözü dölleyicisi biçici (cerrah/cerrahı) çocuğu apoş ...

Here, if the word APOŞ is a noun, it is completed as a complete sentence and a whole sentence appears as an adjective of the person named APOŞ until the last word. But in addition to this, the word APOŞ also has a lexical meaning. The word APOŞ means "between the legs" (meaning the genitals). APOŞ, APIŞ ...etc. in Turkish language. There are various forms of pronunciation.
APOŞ: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

We see "-ucu/-ici/-ücü-/-ıcı" end suffixes at the end of some words. These are the suffixes (-ci,-ci,-cu,-cü,-çı,-çi,-çu,-çu) that add meaning of profession/occupation to the words such as "banka-cı" (banker). And also, -ıcı/-ici/-ucu/-ücü suffixes are making nouns from verbs according to the words to which they are added, such as "kes-ici". It mean that, It works as a name for a cutting tool and also as a name/as an adjective for the person doing the cutting (meaning as "surgeon/the surgeon" and/or as like "the cutting person" or as "the ripper").

We do not show many Turkish words in dictionaries with these suffixes. We only show the meanings of root words and the suffix -mak in dictionaries. (We have explained the details of this and similar word suffixes in our English article on our own page, referring to the source books. You can look at it in more detail there.)

Since I mentioned the meaning content of the words ÖYFE and LÖR in my previous post, I will not go into the same details here. In my previous explanation, I also showed these words on the pages of the lexicons. What we need to remember is that these are two different plant names.

You can see the meaning content of the word ÇİSELENEN in dictionaries as ÇİSELENMEK. Here, the root word is ÇİSE-. We see this word in the root form in dictionaries. In addition, the meaning content is seen in dictionaries with the word suffix -mek in the form of ÇİSELEMEK. The suffix -LE-N in the word ÇİSE-LE-N-EN is one of the suffixes that make a verb from the noun. The suffix -EN at the end of the word adds adjective verb and/or aorist expression.
ÇİSELEMEK: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÇİSE: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The words "ÇÖPLE" and "ÇÖP İLE" are same think ant it mean "with a stick", "with a stick", "with the help of a stick", and "using a stick".
Here, the word "ÇÖP" is used in the sense of "handle piece" (tutmaç parçası) / (Source: Sözce / Divanü Lügati't-Türk /çöp anlamı; tutmaç parçası / ÇÖP: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ).

İLE (-LE):  When it comes to the end of the word, it is a word that is used to make sentences that describe togetherness, togetherness, means, reason or situation. It can be used as a preposition and conjunction. İLE: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

DÖL (semen, progeny): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.l
The words DÖLLEYİCİ / DÖLLEYİCİSİ means "the person who performs the insemination process".

The word GÖZ-Ü (I explained the function of the suffix -Ü) is written and explained in dictionaries in the form of GÖZ.
GÖZ: (compartment, orb, cubbyhole, peeper, eye, etc): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The word BİÇİCİ is also written as PİÇİCİ (reaper) with the very common B/P sound change. BİÇMEK/KESMEK is the form of the word that can be seen in dictionaries and is used here to mean "to cut". The suffix at the end of the word is the expression of profession. The word "BİÇİCİ/PİÇİCİ" means "the reaper/surgeon".
BİÇİCİ: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
BİÇMEK: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The word written by the author as ÇCSU and/or ÇCK (meaning ÇUCU-SU/ÇUCUK-U/ ÇOCUĞU and/or ÇOCUK) is an abbreviation for "to the child / of the child / child". When this word is added to the previous word, it changes meaning like a word suffix. The word alone means "child". It is in the form of ÇUCUK and ÇOCUK in dictionaries. 

Note: This is not a complete sentence and continues to the next line. I added the phrases "-to-/-of-" so that the translation of this line into English can be understood. I will clarify these phrases (perhaps with the help of linguists) when the next line of the sentence is analyzed. For now, I just added them to show that the content is in Turkish.

ÇUCUK: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÇOCUK: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

APOŞ (apış): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

APOŞ can also be a noun. But it is not used here as a noun. For this reason, the sentence stretches towards the next line. So it is incomplete.

The meaning of the words read in English can be translated as follows like: 
"... by/using Öyfe+Lör drizzled hand-tool/stick, the surgeon inseminating to the uterus-hole to/of the child between the legs ........"

Here it appears that Öyfe and Lör plants were liquefied and sprinkled on the stick, which performs an insemination. In the next line, the rest of the sentence is written.

I will return to this page later in my spare time and complete the sentence.

In conclusion, what I have shown is that the same word (plant names) appears in the passage about describing a surgical procedure. Moreover, some words have not changed at all in 600 years, and the root phonetic values of others have not changed.

Thanks,

Another example of a compound word that ends with the word -SU (-water).
OIKARSU > AKARSU


[attachment=5985]


[attachment=5986]  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


------------------------------------------------


Another plant name match is BANANA

MZU = MUZU (the banana)

[attachment=5987]  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.s

[attachment=5988]     
[attachment=5990]  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

[attachment=5989]    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Hello to everyone

Now, I am sharing here below again some of the information I shared on the other page in this platform. Which is necessary for a good understanding of ATA transcription.

Thus, we can continue here whenever we find the opportunity, together with those who have a say on whether the Voynich texts contain Turkish or not, or who want to express their opinions.

So >>


There are phonetic harmony structures in Turkish, and I don't think you can see similar ones in Indo-European languages. For example, the vowel in between -SEM and -SAM word suffixes became E or A. 

This situation does not change the function of this word suffix. So these both show that a person is being expressed. There is a vowel harmony in every Turkish dialect of our language. If you read them from a professional's page, you will understand how sometimes two sometimes 5 voices correspond to one sign in our transcription.

Please see this source link:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

There are eight vowels in todays Turkey Turkish.

They are divided into two groups:

The A-UnDotted Vowels: A I O U
The Dotted Vowels are produced at the front of the mouth similar to French pronounciation.

The E-Dotted Vowels: E İ Ö Ü
The UnDotted Vowels are produced nearer the throat as in English.

For example;
To form plurals we have a choice to add either -lar or -ler to the word.

The Plural Suffix is chosen from -ler or -lar to mirror the final vowel of its noun.

All other suffixes containing a or e follow this Vowel Harmony rule.

The plural suffix -ler to words whose final vowel is one of the E-Dotted Vowels. Same as the plural suffix -lar to words whose vowel is one of the A (non dotted) vowels.

There are a very few exceptions to this rule where the suffix does not echo Vowel Harmony exactly as examples (pls see the source link).

So, Vowel Harmony of Turkish Suffixes
All words with their last vowel in the A-UnDotted Group take -lar as their plural. This rule applies for all suffixes which contain a.
Those words with an E-Dotted Group Vowel take -ler as their plural. This rule applies for all suffixes which contain e.
Common and important words which are in constant use: in, on, at, from, to, with, etc. are suffixes in Turkish. They must harmonize with final vowel of the word they modify.

For this reason, if you are going to try to transcribe a Turkish text, you put different vowel variants in front of each alphabet sign. This situation does not occur in what you call Indo-European languages. For this reason, someone who speaks an Indo-European language naturally thinks that we did the transcription that we did in order to create a space for ourselves to read. But not. This is a normal case. Moreover, since we have not yet determined which dialect the Voynich manuscript author uses, we try to find some sound equivalents in many sentences by trial and error. This situation usually only seems more confusing with multi-syllable marks. However, when we started this work, while there were more phonetic alternatives for each sign, we eliminated these as our work progressed over time.

In addition,
For animate subjects the verb tense suffix must agree in Turkish:
Both the subject and the verb are singular or both subject and verb are plural. The motion away suffix -den/-dan from, by, via, through. The motion toward suffix -(y)e/-(y)a to, towards. Buffer letter -y is used between vowels.

There are two different forms of I (İ) and U (Ü) in Turkish.

The UnDotted Forms of  I or U follow the A-UnDotted group A I O U
The Dotted Forms of  İ or Ü follow the E-Dotted group E İ Ö Ü
Suffixes containing a can have two forms: a or e.
The the suffix -den -dan from was shown as an example.

Suffixes containg the generic letter -I has four forms -i -ı -u -ü.

The suffix -im my harmonizes its own vowel to any of -i, -ı, -u, ü to mirror the last vowel of the word it is suffixed to.

All suffixes with an internal -i- vowel follow this vowel harmony.

The suffix -im follows words whose last vowel is -e or -i. The suffix -ım follows words whose last vowel is -a or -ı. The suffix -üm follows words whose last vowel is -ö or -ü. The suffix-um follows words whose last vowel is -o or -u. The Vowel of the Suffix -im -ım -um -üm my is dropped to prevent two vowels occurring together. When adding -im my (or the other Possessive Adjectives) to a word which ends in a vowel: Only the shortened suffix -m, -n, -miz, -niz is added. This prevents two vowels occurring together. The third person singular suffix a bare vowel -i. It uses buffer letter -s- in order to keep two vowels apart. It preseves the original root word and decomes ‑is ‑sı‑sü ‑su.

In addition; 

Turkish grammar does not use classical grammar nomenclature.
The subject definite article "the" does not exist in Turkish.

There is no ""the" man" as the subject definite article.

"the" is already understood as substantive and does not need a definite article.

There is an object definite article "the" in Turkish. You can see the source You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.



I'm sure this may sound confusing to some of you. 

If anyone wants to go into detail, they can see more examples in the source You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


As a result, when thinking in English and judging the work done for Turkish, you should consider that the experience of preparing transcriptions for Turkish may not match your expectations.


Thanks,

Dear Rene, 

I am writing to answer the question you asked on the other page here below: 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Because it would probably be better for us to discuss whether there is Turkish content in the texts or our claims here, in terms of page rules. 

Or, if we have incomplete information about the ninja page structure, if the admin can help us to open another topic, the whole discussion can proceed under the new topic to be opened. However, I am writing ATA transcription related items to here for now.


So, Statistics is one of the methods that linguistics should benefit from, and it's also hugely helpful in making the right match.

This will not work at the current stage, but if the texts that can be compared in terms of statistical proofing can be prepared with the help of linguists, this method can of course be presented as an additional proof.

But when that day comes, our current linguistic based method will have done this for linguists anyway.

Sorry for repeating below, but that's the case around.

It will be difficult to choose the proper text to be compared without understanding the dialect. There are many phonetically far dialects of Turkish, and there is no comparable material to do this today. Because of we do not identify the VM dialect yet.

Even if we estimate the modern comparison text in the same dialect, correcting the 600 years old abbreviations and manipulation words not possible without know the old dialect again. We can only overcome this problem by working with linguists for now.

However, there are complete sentences that can still be read, and there are also Turkish words that are clearly read and unmanipulated, being on every line for about 240 pages. In this sense, there is a complete overlap between the spelling of the words 600 years ago, have insignificant phonetic shift and-or no phonetic change, of approximately 20% to 21% of the words over 240 pages. So we know clearly that the alphabet transcription is correct. In other words, these parts are easily read and understood like reading a newspaper.

So we have ATA transcription at hand which working properly for VM readings. Taking advantage of this, we did some very clear readings. Thus, we have also shown a large number of drawings and overlaps in terms of nouns.

In other words, the current  known content is in Turkish clearly and this issue is also undeniably seen based on mathematical probabilities.

In this sense, applying the items you have listed here and using the statistical method means that you want us to verify the subject, which we have verified with a properly working transcription, for you again and in another way. But there's no point in doing it anyway, because let me tell you in advance you won't see significant statistical overlap in current stage.

Therefore, in this case, you should take into account the differences of the texts and the dialects of the Turkish language.

I'm talking about both item 1 and item 2. In order to make the statistical comparison, we must select the necessary modern text from the dialects of the same dialect that continue today. But we must also correct the manipulations in the 600-year-old original text, such as shortening, lengthening, and dividing words into syllables. However, for this, we must first know the dialect of the author again.

In this case, the texts in which the comparison will be made using the statistical method are not ready today. 

However, about 700 words, 92 overlaps of drawing and writing, and 100 or so full sentences already give us information within the mathematical possibilities. This information is that all this did not happen by chance. In other words, seeing such a wide overlap by chance and the fact that the readable words overlap within the sentence structure of Turkish tells us that Turkish/Turkic is already in the content within the mathematical possibility.

In other words, when we read the same sign with the same phonetic value with ATA transcription, we say that there are words that overlap with sentences and drawings. 
We showed examples of them here on this platform and we found these words in old dictionaries and showed them in dictionaries too.

On the other hand, we don't get much feedback from this group about the overlaps & sentence we share.

Regards,