The Voynich Ninja

(09-08-2020, 10:39 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.***
***
***

It was a lengthy explanation in bad English. Thank you for reading with patience.

It certainly was, and only a fraction seemed to contain any clues malleable to an answer to the actual question I wanted an answer to. No disrespect, but why is it so hard to answer questions briefly and to the point? Contrary to what you wrote in the beginning of your answer I was actually not requesting additional information, merely the answer to the specific question I wrote.

Please understand that we (I mean the people presumably interested in your theories) are not children, and we have only a little time to devote on the myriad of VMS related theories and discussions in this world. Please also understand that when someone asks a simple question in few words, that means that the questioner is probably expecting an answer written in the very same manner, briefly and simple put. Then, maybe if additional information is needed to understand some details, would it be too much to ask that you please summarize them to much shorter in length, as well as to not include any irrelevant information which takes long time to sort out from the relevant information? The probability is otherwise high that much information is lost in the reading/parsing process, or that the train of thought is lost. As I wrote, I mean no disrespect, but in all honesty I think it is actually quite disrespectful of you to communicate in this sort of way, expecting that the listener has all the time in the world to listen to every little detail of your theories and thoughts right away, when actually one is only in the beginning examining/evaluating stage.

Ok, so back to the actual question... 
You actually did provide a few translations of the separate word-incidents of words possibly related to daiin which I can understand:
SAM: straw, grass/sap, candle, wax, solid-parafin, SEM: medicine, candle, wax, beeswax, silver, SAGIN: milking, lactating, milch, complete, SAGIM: milking. 

However, when you give examples as frequently occurring suffixes, you once again did not give any translations into English. I don't understand the cyrillic alphabet either. Would it not be possible to at least translate the most common word+suffixes?

Thanks, and Best Regards.

(09-08-2020, 11:41 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Whether this is one way or another does not indicate whether the VMS is Turkish or not. But written instances of both AYAK and SAK are older than VMS for sure. This is the first example I seen that with these two words being used side by side as an adjective. 

So if we found the first example of something, this is good for linguistic record.

I see. When we're dealing with an unconfirmed translation in an unidentified dialect, I'm not sure we can count unknown phrases as a win for the linguistic record. 'Baby pomegranate bag wax' seems to me an extremely odd adjective in any language, unless it's some kind of idiom.

(08-08-2020, 05:09 PM)Alin_J Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(07-08-2020, 12:00 AM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(04-08-2020, 12:05 AM)Pepper Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Ahmet, nice to see you here and thanks for answering questions. What is your translation of the vord daiin? 

Hi Pepper,

You asked an explanation about a short word with using a short sentence. However, the answer is not short. Because this word is used in many different meanings as both a word suffix and an independent word. For this reason, this word is used very often in VMS and this is a very normal situation.

We can write this word in Latin abc in the form SAĞN / ŞAĞN / SEĞN, SAM / ŞAM / SEM / ŞEM, ŞAIIN / SAIIN / ŞEĞN / ŞEİİN according to ATA alphabet transcription. 

I am not saying that the author was referring to all of these words by writing with this single word. There's absolutely nothing like that. Only this word has a Turkish equivalent of all different transcription combinations and some of their meanings are also common. Because the word root is the same. So, that as the word is read in context, the human brain (for a native speaker) automatically derives all variations, and selects the appropriate one for the context. An example of the brain automatically selecting the appropriate concept to the context in English would be the presentation of the word “fly.” Depending on the context in which it is being read, the brain will draw a distinction between “fly” the verb and “fly” the noun. A similar situation exists in Turkish, albeit with more options. If this is confusing, you can read the explanation below and see that all of them in Turkish.

I hope you will understand my English in first read.

The spelling of this word as SAIIN and as like SAĞN are so close to each other with in phonetic-value that they cannot be perceived as different words. The root of this word is the SA- ('SAĞ-' in some dialects), and it has the suffix '-ĞN'.

The suffix “-ĞN” (“-AĞN”/“-ĞIN”/ “-GİN”) is the phonetic equivalent of “-AĞIN / -EĞİN” due to the Turkish vowel harmony rule, for when the last letter of a root is a consonant, a vowel may be placed as a conjunction between the root and the suffix. These suffixes indicate prospect attainability, potentially achieving something, to be able to potentially attain/reach something, and expecting forthcoming form of something (-able). Sir Gerard Clauson in his book "Studies in Turkic and Mongolic Linguistics" (page 154) explained the suffixes “ĞIN”, and “GİN” as: ["-ğın/-gin function uncertain; e.g. kev- "to masticate" > kevgin "indigestible"; rare and unproductive and probably very old."]. In addition, Sir Gerard Clauson explained in his book "An etymological dictionary of pre-Thirteenth-Century Turkish" (Clauson) that: ["-ğ the commonest Deverbal Suffix; forms a wide range of Deverbal Nouns and Noun/Adjectives, Nomen actiones, etc".]

You can see this word in some Turkish dictionaries (with certain meanings) in the form SAĞIN. But you can often see this word in dictionaries with the word-suffix '-mek / -mak'. So you can see this word in the dictionaries as like SAĞINMAK and SAĞMAK too.

The suffixes “-mek/-mak”: these are suffixes of Turkish infinitive. They turn the root word into a verb as well as also a concrete noun.(Clauson, Eyuboğlu, Guise)

SAĞINMAK: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SAĞMAK: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(See Turkish equivalents in the dictionary in google word translator.)

In addition, the various meaning of the word SAĞIN itself is shown in some dictionaries.
SAĞIN: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

You could say that essentially, the letter A and E correspond to ATA Transcription with a single typeface. So we can read this word as SEĞİN.
However, the word SEĞİN is a Turkish word too.
SEĞİN: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

If you read the word in SEM format, it also has Turkish meanings.
SEM: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

If we talk about reading this word as SAM, we can say the following. This word is both a word-suffix and a word that has its own meaning.

The word SAM: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The suffixe -SAM: The suffix “-SAM” indicates actions taken in first person. This suffix is directly described as “I/me” and is related to the suffixes “-SAM”, “-SIM”, “-SİM” or “-SEM” which all describe action’s owner to be “I, me, myself” (first person) (Guise).

In Turkish, some word-suffixes can be written separated from the main word/root since ancient times.

Likewise, the pronunciation of word SEM also has Turkish meanings. For example, we know that this word is used in the meaning of 'medicine' in Old Turkish. But the word SEM also has other meanings too. 
SEM: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The pronunciation of this word as ŞAM and as like ŞEM has some meanings in Turkish.
ŞAM: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞEM: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

If we talk about the spelling of the word ŞAĞIN;
Today, this word is written and read in the Anatolian dialects in the form of UŞAĞIN. In other words, the word has a U sound on the front side. We know that some dialects in Azerbaijan are still used in the form of ŞAĞIN in the same meaning.

In this spelling, the root word is the word UŞAK. But when it was take the word suffix -ĞIN, the K sound was lost in pronunciation and the word became as USAĞIN.
UŞAK: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

If we read the word as ŞEĞN, this lives in our language in the form of ŞEYİN. The root of this word is ŞEY. It usually appears in the root form in dictionaries.
ŞEY: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞEYİN: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

As you can see, we have shown all the different readings of this word read in VMS according to ATA transcription. Moreover, we shared all related Turkish dictionary pages.

You may have noticed that this word is repeated in almost every page, with multiple numbers in VMS. Moreover, just like in modern Turkish, this word appears in VMS as both an independent word and as a word suffix. So, in this point, the overlap between Turkish and VMS is very clear. All I can tell you is that the word is not used in the same meaning, or in the same function with all of these repetitions in VMS.

So that's why there are many repetitions.

In the runic alphabet inscriptions from the Old Turkish Period, cases where two or more sounds were met with a single alphabet sign were recorded. So this is not just for VMS-specific too.

However, this type of alphabet has helped the author to encode confidential information. We talked about how this coding is done in our second youtube video in English.   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

May be it is very difficult to understand this situation for a person who thinks English (or any other PIE rooted language) in his/her brain, but an example, even if a word has 10 readings and 100 different meanings, someone who knows Turkish will understand the meaning of the word when they read a sentence. In addition, Turkish speaking person will always understand whether it was used as a word-suffixe or as a separate word too.

So, This is suffix and word. Different readings of the word mostly from same root and a native speaker brain automatically selecting the appropriate concept or meaning form the meaning content. 

The author could write this word in a more separable form by using with simple alphabet characters only, if she/he were wanted to that.

If the author were wanted to that, she/he was not match some single sign in the alphabet with 2 sounds. So this type of writing is not very normal. However, the aim of the author was to create a coded MS which should have been not easy to read. The author was coding and developed a complex alphabet to make this MS difficult to read.

In other words, this alphabet is the situation specific alphabet to created only for VMS, which has been created with consisting of both the syllabic alphabet, the simple alphabet and the tamga-scripts and the numbers. For this reason, now we are reading a simple word in very different ways.

The interesting thing is that even when we take the meanings of different words, the meaning integrity of the sentences is often not broken in meaning. I think this is a situation that created by the intelligence of the author, but it cannot be a coincidence. It is probably not possible to simulate this situation in a language other than Turkish.

Best regards,

Ahmet Ardıç
ATA Team Alberta

Hello Ahmet,

I believe that in your answer you are attempting to provide us with ample explanations to why this particular separate glyph sequence is found very frequently in the VMS (in fact it is the most frequent qlyph sequence), if I'm not being too much mistaken? However, you didn't really answer the question asked. In your links that you have provided no actual translations of the words can be found since everything is written in Turkish, so you have to have knowledge of Turkish to understand the web-pages. Therefore I would here like to re-formulate the original question:

What would be your translation of the - or one of the - most commonly found example(s) of this word/word-suffix in Turkish/Old Turkish languages, into English? 

I am not relying on Google translate, I would like an answer from someone who speaks Turkish. Thank you.

Hello friends,

Let me give two more examples from today's Anatolian Turkish, where the first and second person singular request / wish modes are used, so you can clearly see that the word suffix -SAM / -SEM, -SAN / SEN is also using in modern Turkish too. 
 
The name of the author who wrote this poem: Niyazi Bilgin
Name of this poem: *Ne Yapsam Bilmiyorum* (* I Don't Know What To Do *)
[Source: Niyazi Bilgin <https://www.gulum.net/sair/bolumler.php?op=goster&id=4391>]
 
Note: I marked the words that repeat twice in this poem, in red. Also, the last voice of one of these repetitions has been lengthened. (example: of offfffff) All of these have also seen in 600 years old VMS texts.
 
 
*Ne Yapsam Bilmiyorum*
 
Ne yapsam bilmiyorum...
Versem aklımı yem diye kuşlara.
Yatsam bir tren yolunun kenarında.
Çıkıp bir ağacın dalında uyusam.
Yolun ortasında oturup sigara içsem.
Arabamın el frenini açıp salsam caddeye.
Hiç durmadan koşsam çılgınca.
Duvarların üzerinde yürüsem
Ve durup durduk yere
Bağırsam birinin kulağına hiç yoktan.
Saçlarımı kazıtsam sıfıra
Ve yanımdan geçen birine atsam yumruğu.
Alıp başımı gitsem bilinmezliğe.
Girip bir saunaya saatlerce kalsam.
Gecenin bir saatinde gidip iş yerime çalışsam,
Ne işin var burada diyenleri dövsem.
Hiç durmadan sigara içsem.
Gitar çalsam delice.
Binanın tepesine çıkıp şehri izlesem.
Buz gibi suda yüzsem.
Müziğin sesini sonuna kadar açsam .
Kapıyı çalanlara açmasam kapıyı.
Yemek yesem çatlayana kadar.
Ağlasam gözyaşlarım kuruyana kadar
Ve birden başlasam gülmeye katıla katıla.
Bilgisayarda oyun oynasam,
Yenilince atsam camdan aşağıya.
Elbiselerimi değiştirip dursam
Ve her değiştirdiğimde ,
Arkadaşıma sorsam nasıl oldu diye.
Bütün renkleri karıştırsam birbirine;
Mavi hariç !!!
Ve serpsem bir tuvalin üstüne.
Dalında meyve koparsam,
Ve yoldan geçen birine versem.
Bisikletime binsem ve başka şehre gitsem.
Sonra tekerini patlatıp otostop çeksem,
Yarı yolda inip geri dönsem.
Bir taksiye binip şehri dolaşıp geri evime gelsem.
Uyusam hiç kalkmadan günlerce.
Sessiz sessiz otursam.
Kardeşimi ziyarete gitsem ,
Ve cebimde ne kadar para varsa hepsini ona Versem.
Elbiselerimi yırtıp otobüsçüye param olmadığımı söylesem,
Beni götürmesini istesem.
Gitmesem işe günlerce,
Daha sonra gece gündüz çalışsam.
Arabamın önüne pervane taksam ve uçmaya çalışsam,
Uçamayınca ağırlıktan olduğunu düşünüp
Pervaneyi elime alıp kendim uçmaya çalışsam.
Düşüp bir yerimi kırsam.
Alçılı alçılı dolaşsam aylarca.
Durmadan seni düşünsem
Düşünsem düşünsem...
of offfffffff
Neler yapsam bilmiyorum sensiz
Aslında bir sen olsan bir de ben...
Hiçbir şey yapmadan seni izlesem.
 
Niyazi Bilgin
 
 
The name of the author (who wrote following poem): Cemal Süreyya (1931 - 1990)
Neme of this poem: *Sen Gelsen* (*if you come*)
[Source: Cemal Süreyya <http://asksiirleri.org/sen-gelsen-cemal-sureya>]
Note: In this poem, first person (-SAM/-SEK) singular, second (-SAN/-SEN) person singular and third person plural present tense (-SAK/-SEK) request / wish modes suffixes were marked with blue. -SAK syllable is seen in VMS, just like SAN and SAM word suffixes.
 
Sen Gelsen
 
Şimdi açsam pencereyi beklesem
Sen gelsen
Olmaz ya hani geliversen
Hiç bir şey sormasan
Hiç bir şey söylemesen
Sussam
Sussan
Sussak.
Susuşların anlattığını dinlesek
Sırt sırta otursak
Katılasıya ağlasak
Sormasak birbirimize sebebini
Sarılsam
Sarılsan
Sarılsak.
Ve yine hiç bir şey konuşmasak
Ama anlasak
Ne vardı sahi
Olmaz ya
Hayal ya
Hani diyorum olsa ne vardı.
 
Cemal Süreya
 
 
Best regards,
 
Ahmet Ardıç
ATAT Team Alberta

If you transpose all the underlined terms with 'daiin', neither of those poems looks remotely like Voynichese. Daiin appears on its own most (all?) of the time, not as part of longer vords. 

How do you treat spaces in the VMS? Do you ignore them and add daiin to the word before as a suffix?

(10-08-2020, 10:53 AM)Pepper Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
If you transpose all the underlined terms with 'daiin', neither of those poems looks remotely like Voynichese. Daiin appears on its own most (all?) of the time, not as part of longer vords. 
...

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]FYI, daiin[/font] does occur as part of a longer vord. In the first 40 sides, this occurs about 60 times. Usually daiin is at the end. This is not counting the other variants (e.g., [font=Eva]dan/dain/daiiin).[/font]

(10-08-2020, 12:55 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-08-2020, 03:18 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
...
As I tried to explain before, I have some difficulties in translating from Old Turkish to modern English. First of all, English is not my native language. And, we could not identify that old dialect yet. Therefore, I have to either translate the meaning into English, or talk about them by translating 1/1 words. 

When I only translate the meaning a sentence, someone who does not speak Turkish may not be able to reconcile them with what the VMS author wrote. When I translate 1/1 (word by word), the sentences may not look like a complete sentence. In other words, they look like unreasonably lined words.

...

In situations like this, it is a good idea to do it both ways...

Create three columns. One is the original VMS passage, the next is the literal translation, the third is the common way of saying it.

Many Bible and Qur'an concordances are designed this way. The literal translation allows a person to see exactly which words were transliterated while the third column provides a more understandable meaning.

This is also the most honest way of doing it because there are no "invisible" steps between the original text and the common interpretation. It makes the methodology more clear, which is always appreciated by those following a scientific method.


Many Voynich researchers know more than one language, so we understand how grammar can be different in another language and how some things are understood by culture. Anyone who has learned a far eastern language (e.g., Japanese or Chinese) understands that text can be very nuanced and local people know how to read meaning into sentences that seem incomplete to someone from outside the culture.

Thank you for your suggestion. Yes, you are right, it may be more useful to explain that translations in under three separate sections, as you have shown.

I work on several manuscripts and ancient texts at the same time, and I don't use all my free time to read VMS. Because I cannot focus on the same subject for a long time. 

I am currently on vacation in the Mediterranean Turkey (in Datça), so I have some free time to share some findings from our study on this (voynich ninja) platform during my vacation. 

I don't know the details of Turkish as like as most linguist. In addition to this, If I try to explain some topic with in 10 sentences that probably more linguist will explain same subject more clearly in 3 sentences. Moreover, linguists can provide more and more detailed examples in the future. So these are actually not my work.

Normally, it is necessary to conduct such research with a large team that includes more people and experts from different fields. For example, botanists must be involved, ... etc. If this happens, the entire VMS can be translated in about 2 or 3 years. But the problem is essentially that people & linguists in Turkey and in other Turkish-speaking countries generally are not aware about existence of VMS.

After all, We are at the beginning of these translation works and the process are moving slowly may be but all developments in all area in VMS are progressing positively. We, as a family team, trying to do our best and none of us are linguists. However, what makes a person knowledgeable is not diplomas he/she has but the knowledge he/she accumulated for sure. 

I noted your suggestions. Thank you.

Ahmet

(10-08-2020, 09:27 AM)Alin_J Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(09-08-2020, 10:39 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.***
***
***

It was a lengthy explanation in bad English. Thank you for reading with patience.

It certainly was, and only a fraction seemed to contain any clues malleable to an answer to the actual question I wanted an answer to. No disrespect, but why is it so hard to answer questions briefly and to the point? Contrary to what you wrote in the beginning of your answer I was actually not requesting additional information, merely the answer to the specific question I wrote.

Please understand that we (I mean the people presumably interested in your theories) are not children, and we have only a little time to devote on the myriad of VMS related theories and discussions in this world. Please also understand that when someone asks a simple question in few words, that means that the questioner is probably expecting an answer written in the very same manner, briefly and simple put. Then, maybe if additional information is needed to understand some details, would it be too much to ask that you please summarize them to much shorter in length, as well as to not include any irrelevant information which takes long time to sort out from the relevant information? The probability is otherwise high that much information is lost in the reading/parsing process, or that the train of thought is lost. As I wrote, I mean no disrespect, but in all honesty I think it is actually quite disrespectful of you to communicate in this sort of way, expecting that the listener has all the time in the world to listen to every little detail of your theories and thoughts right away, when actually one is only in the beginning examining/evaluating stage.

Ok, so back to the actual question... 
You actually did provide a few translations of the separate word-incidents of words possibly related to daiin which I can understand:
SAM: straw, grass/sap, candle, wax, solid-parafin, SEM: medicine, candle, wax, beeswax, silver, SAGIN: milking, lactating, milch, complete, SAGIM: milking. 

However, when you give examples as frequently occurring suffixes, you once again did not give any translations into English. I don't understand the cyrillic alphabet either. Would it not be possible to at least translate the most common word+suffixes?

Thanks, and Best Regards.

Dear Alin,

I think people on this platform are mostly one of the PIE rooted language speaker. I try to answer about some questions which related with completely different language. In my opinion, briefly answering these questions will not fully help anyone who trying to understand this issue in linguistic detail. For this reason, I think it is necessary to mention the details related to the main subject.

I am not a child either and I do not need your that kind of basic suggestions to learn something. If you do not like to read my long comments/articles or if you find that articles useless for some reason, please do not read them.

Many topics are discussed under many different headings on the Voynich Ninja page. I also have an opinion about those issues, but I do not write any comments under those titles with my limited English. 

I do not understand why are you reading my long articles/comments if you think those are useless or long that while there are many different articles on this web page. I also want you to know that I consider your comment as disrespectful.

The subject of this section here is exactly about our VMS related work only. Therefore, I only share my comments in this section. If you do not want to read long articles, please feel free and you do not have to look my comments under this title. Moreover, I do not think that you are in a position to decide what and how much information should be given, since you do not have information about Turkish. 

Those who are interested in what I write will read it.

I'm on vacation right now and I have some time to share some information here in this particular part of this web-page. For this reason, when those who are curious about the subject can ask some question and I can answer them as I want in this subject area. When my vacation is over, I will not have much time to visit this page anyway. 

Thank you sharing your opinion,


You can see the word-suffix you mentioned in the modern Turkish poem below in Latin alphabet.

The name of the author of this poem: Niyazi Bilgin
Name of this poem: *Ne Yapsam Bilmiyorum* (* I Don't Know What To Do *)
[Source: Niyazi Bilgin <https://www.gulum.net/sair/bolumler.php?op=goster&id=4391>]
 
Note: I marked the words that repeat twice in this poem, in red. Also, the last voice of one of these repetitions has been lengthened. (example: of offfffff) All of these have also seen in 600 years old VMS texts.
 
 
*Ne Yapsam Bilmiyorum*
 
Ne yapsam bilmiyorum...
Versem aklımı yem diye kuşlara.
Yatsam bir tren yolunun kenarında.
Çıkıp bir ağacın dalında uyusam.
Yolun ortasında oturup sigara içsem.
Arabamın el frenini açıp salsam caddeye.
Hiç durmadan koşsam çılgınca.
Duvarların üzerinde yürüsem
Ve durup durduk yere
Bağırsam birinin kulağına hiç yoktan.
Saçlarımı kazıtsam sıfıra
Ve yanımdan geçen birine atsam yumruğu.
Alıp başımı gitsem bilinmezliğe.
Girip bir saunaya saatlerce kalsam.
Gecenin bir saatinde gidip iş yerime çalışsam,
Ne işin var burada diyenleri dövsem.
Hiç durmadan sigara içsem.
Gitar çalsam delice.
Binanın tepesine çıkıp şehri izlesem.
Buz gibi suda yüzsem.
Müziğin sesini sonuna kadar açsam .
Kapıyı çalanlara açmasam kapıyı.
Yemek yesem çatlayana kadar.
Ağlasam gözyaşlarım kuruyana kadar
Ve birden başlasam gülmeye katıla katıla.
Bilgisayarda oyun oynasam,
Yenilince atsam camdan aşağıya.
Elbiselerimi değiştirip dursam
Ve her değiştirdiğimde ,
Arkadaşıma sorsam nasıl oldu diye.
Bütün renkleri karıştırsam birbirine;
Mavi hariç !!!
Ve serpsem bir tuvalin üstüne.
Dalında meyve koparsam,
Ve yoldan geçen birine versem.
Bisikletime binsem ve başka şehre gitsem.
Sonra tekerini patlatıp otostop çeksem,
Yarı yolda inip geri dönsem.
Bir taksiye binip şehri dolaşıp geri evime gelsem.
Uyusam hiç kalkmadan günlerce.
Sessiz sessiz otursam.
Kardeşimi ziyarete gitsem ,
Ve cebimde ne kadar para varsa hepsini ona Versem.
Elbiselerimi yırtıp otobüsçüye param olmadığımı söylesem,
Beni götürmesini istesem.
Gitmesem işe günlerce,
Daha sonra gece gündüz çalışsam.
Arabamın önüne pervane taksam ve uçmaya çalışsam,
Uçamayınca ağırlıktan olduğunu düşünüp
Pervaneyi elime alıp kendim uçmaya çalışsam.
Düşüp bir yerimi kırsam.
Alçılı alçılı dolaşsam aylarca.
Durmadan seni düşünsem
Düşünsem düşünsem...
of offfffffff
Neler yapsam bilmiyorum sensiz
Aslında bir sen olsan bir de ben...
Hiçbir şey yapmadan seni izlesem.
 
Niyazi Bilgin

(08-08-2020, 06:49 PM)Pepper Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-08-2020, 04:06 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]In brief, "The Baby pomegranate bag wax" (is not phrase or is not sentence too, but it is an adjective.[/font]

Thanks.

Thank you for the additional explanation, especially taking all this time to respond to us in English.

Is "the baby pomegranate bag wax" a typical adjective in Turkish or Old Turkish?

Yes, there are various adjectives which same like structurally similar with this VMS adjective.
You can find basic information in this link below.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This page gives limited information about Anatolian Turkish. But I think that you will have some idea.
Thanks,

(10-08-2020, 01:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do not understand why are you reading my long articles/comments if you think those are useless or long that while there are many different articles on this web page. I also want you to know that I consider your comment as disrespectful.

With all due respect, how can I possible know if an answer is useful without reading it through first?? I was reading them in the hope that they would provide answers. It is too bad that you consider my comment disrespectful, and for that I am really sorry, it was not my intention. Instead I was hoping they would offer constructive criticism to help you to improve the messages you are trying to convey. Please regard them as such. I think you must understand that the way you write your responses you cannot expect many people to pick up easily on your ideas. You could at least put all the relevant answers in the beginning, and the explanations at the end and clearly write where all the objective answers to questions etc begin/end and where all the subjective reasoning begin?

(10-08-2020, 01:31 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do not think that you are in a position to decide what and how much information should be given, since you do not have information about Turkish. 

The reason I asked for translations into English is both that I don't now know Turkish and I do not know any Old Turkish either. This is what I asked for, OK? But you didn't give me those answers, and now it seems the reason you are not giving them is that I should not have this information since I do not know these languages? Really? Since you are in the position of knowing the languages and you are of the opinion that these translations is of no use to me... ? Really...?

(10-08-2020, 01:58 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-08-2020, 06:49 PM)Pepper Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-08-2020, 04:06 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]In brief, "The Baby pomegranate bag wax" (is not phrase or is not sentence too, but it is an adjective.[/font]

Thanks.

Thank you for the additional explanation, especially taking all this time to respond to us in English.

Is "the baby pomegranate bag wax" a typical adjective in Turkish or Old Turkish?

Yes, there are various adjectives which same like structurally similar with this VMS adjective.
You can find basic information in this link below.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This page gives limited information about Anatolian Turkish. But I think that you will have some idea.
Thanks,

I'm not clear if the examples on that webpage are 1:1 translations or if the translations swap the word order so the phrases make sense in English. Either way the translations on that page make sense and sound natural to me - a blue house, a rich man, tired children. 'Baby pomegranate bag wax' makes no sense to me - I have no idea what it is trying to convey.

I'm not asking if the STRUCTURE of the adjective is typical for Turkish/Old Turkish but if the actual adjective makes sense.