The Voynich Ninja

Dear Lisa,
Dear friends,

Thank you for your kind attention after two major earthquakes in Turkey. I would like to express our gratitude to all our friends in this Voynich community who were check in to see if I and my family are all right.

Kind regards,

A. Ardıç

[attachment=7213]

I think that, while the VM-Turkish readings continue we find the opportunity to interpret the drawings more accurately.

When we look at the drawing on the VM-83v page and read the content written there, we see that the terminology used is around the theme of pregnancy and reproduction.

In the image we quoted here, the words we wrote in Latin letters at the top and their meanings are as follows:

DÖLGÜ (fertilization) = this/the fertilization

DÖLAPOP ÇCSU (The child born due to insemination by her friend (after reading the content, we think it means "getting pregnant by her girlfriend's husband").

DÖLEP = Fertile

DÖLGÖSÜ (döl gözü) = the uterus-hole / the womb-hole

DÖL-  (as a root word) = Meaning content of the Turkish root word DÖL- in English ; Sperm, progeny, offspring, seed, semen, spawn, fruit, progeniture, baby, generation, lineage, fertilize, etc.

Note: As you remember, we have read the word ÇOCUSU (çocuğu) written by the author in the form of ÇCSU, in a sentence here before. Being in the same sentence, we also showed the compound word DÖL+GÖZÜ, which the author wrote in the form of DÖLGÖSÜ, in the same sentence. Here you can see once again that both words are written in the same form on both pages and are read by us in the same form and with the same meaning. The author was writing about insemination with a liquid consisting of a herbal mixture that he/she had intersperse on a tool before. You can remember by opening the page below that we explained the same words in the same way in the previous reading I mentioned.

Please see:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

The word number 1 is APOPERÜ (apop + er -ü)
The word APOPERÜ, which we marked with number 1 here, is a compound word. It is formed by combining the words APOP (ahbap) and ERÜ (er-i) by the author. In previous statements, I wrote that the root of the word eri derives from the word ER-, which means "man, husband". 
(At the same time, I have also expressed the function of the suffix -ü, -u, -ı -i by referring to the sources and grammatical structures before. That's why I don't repeat them here.)

The most common spelling of the author's word APOP (or OPOP for those who interpret the first letter as the letter O) in modern Turkey Turkish is AHBAP. But we know that this word is used in the forms of APBAP, ABBAP, EHPAP, EHBAB, AHBAB, EHBAP in different dialects today.

Please see:
AHBAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
APBAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ABBAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EHPAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EHBAB > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AHBAB > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EHBAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

ER > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ER / ER-i > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ER > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

Note 2: I marked the words starting with the root word DÖL with yellow background color on the original texts in the image. However, various words starting with this word are seen throughout this page and generally throughout the manuscript.

Note 3: Numerous Turkish words are read clearly throughout every line of this page and throughout every line of every page of Voynich manuscript. I'm not just talking about the words exemplified here. We read many other words in this image and on the page too. However, abbreviated words and drug names that we think were created by the author, and unreadable words due to the dialect still not being determined (and so on) are also seen on the same lines. Although these make it difficult to read, in time they will be read in full. However, the parts read provide us with information about the content of the general narrative of pages. 


The word number 2 is OLERÇÜ / Oıl+ER-ÇÜ (Oğul Er-ci): 
This word is a compound word. The word consists of the words OL and ERÇÜ. 
The word OL here means son. 
The root word of ER-ÇÜ is ER- (man/husband) and here -ÇÜ is the word suffix. 
(We have explained the affixes before and cited the source. Therefore, I do not repeat them here.)

The meaning of the word OLERÇÜ can probably be interpreted in different ways by different Turkish language experts. For example, there may be those who interpret this word as "people who sell man for sex or sperm". Or, this word can be tried to be explained in different meanings based on its word-roots. But I think it is likely that eventually the way I understand it will be more widely accepted. Thus, the meaning of the word OL+ER-ÇÜ should mean "the woman who has made her own son her husband" (or, to explain what is meant a little more, "the woman who became pregnant from her own son".

Note 4: We know from the readings that the author tried to combine some plant with different plant. The author is trying to create new species in plants, or he/she is someone who has created new species of plants and named those species. At the same time, we remember from previous You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that the author uses some stick-like instruments and some herbal medicines or liquids to help some women get pregnant by implanting sperm into the uterus (with the help of a stick). Here, the author describes a woman who became pregnant with the sperm of her own son and a woman who became pregnant by her friend's husband. 

So, we think that the author made the drawings here and on many more pages as representational/abstract forms of expression. For example, we think that the two green circular structures in the image we quoted here represent an male-reproductive-organ/balls of two different men and the expressed liquid/fluids coming out of them are in the sense of sperm. At the same time, it can be said that she/he abstractly expressed some of the vessels in the human body, the channels between the reproductive organs and the female genitalia/uterus, with the female figures here or the structure on which they step.

Please see:
OĞUL (son, boy) = OL
(Also in some dialects the forms oıl and/or OUL or OOL, OUL, OGL, OGLA etc. are known.)
Please see OĞUL here >  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
=
Please see OL here > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
=
OOL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OUL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OGIL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OGLA > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

As sentence reading works continues for VM, we hope to say that we are much more confident that we have translate to VM pages to modern Turkish with greater clarity. However, the clear issue we are sure about today is that the content contains Turkish. The translations of the texts will be discussed for a long time from now on, and this is a normal situation.

So far, the number of words that overlap/match the drawing has been 105. We are also starting to renew our website.

To date, we have forwarded our presentations/readings to more than 500 Turkish language experts (linguists at various academies). The developments are very positive. There has not yet been a single negative comment from the Turkish language expert linguists regarding our claim that our VM-texts contain the Turkish language, or an article or attempt to refute our claim. On the contrary, many linguists we met face to face confirmed the findings and expressed their surprise.

It may take longer for widespread awareness to emerge around the world. But that doesn't matter.

The presentation we made at the international symposium in Ankara held in October 2022 will be published in the proceedings booklet of this symposium. As you remember I've talked about this symposium here before. See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Thus, we continue to raise awareness by conveying the issue to the Old Turkish language experts and Turkish-speaking linguists, being at an international level. In my presentation at the aforementioned symposium, I presented an example of reading a full page from VM texts.

Although the war environment in Europe and a painful earthquake in Türkiye are affecting many people and some our friends painfully, we continue to do our research work in our free time.



Thank you for reading.

A. Ardıç

This image shows that your transcription is not perfect, and that there are many flaws. You are constantly changing using EVA (which isn't designed to be a transliteration) and then changing it to match your results. 
It's like me looking at fachys.ykal.ar.ataiin.shol.shory
and saying Fach is' egal Aar erteilen Schul [yiddish/Luxembourgish] schor er

The German is: Subject doesn't matter, Divide the eagle (poetic), he cut the school

And then I will just copy some book that agrees with me that Ar=Aar



Since the Voynich was carbon dated to around 1400-1450, this gives 'proof' that Aar=Ar is a good replacement and then I have managed to decrypt the manuscript!

Don't delude yourself.

[quote="Addsamuels" pid='53972' dateline='1677436766']

[This image shows that your transcription is not perfect, and that there are many flaws. You are constantly changing using EVA (which isn't designed to be a transliteration) and then changing it to match your results. 
It's like me looking at fachys.ykal.ar.ataiin.shol.shory
and saying Fach is' egal Aar erteilen Schul [yiddish/Luxembourgish] schor er

The German is: Subject doesn't matter, Divide the eagle (poetic), he cut the school

And then I will just copy some book that agrees with me that Ar=Aar]


Dear Sir, 

If you think the texts are written in natural language and you intend to read them precisely, you will need a properly-working alphabet transcription table.

I don't use any variant of EVA and I don't think I need to. We have our own ATA alphabet transcription tables and we use them.

In VM-writing, words contain syllable characters as well as simple alphabet characters. 
We made the alphabet-tables for both. 
For the signs in the syllable character tables, we mapped more than one phoneme value due to the vowel harmony rule/structure of Turkish, and also by taking into account the cases such as the author's lack of distinction between A and E.

(Note: The author of VM is not the first person who expresses the letters A and E with one sign. Similar situations well known for the Old Turkish texts. There are linguists who have identified the same situation in many other inscriptions in history. We have referred to them in our articles.)

As I said, the author used the letter A and E with one/single sign. At the same time, she showed the letter O and Ö with a single sign, the letter I and İ ( ı & i ) with a single sign, and the letter U and Ü with a single sign. For this reason, more than one sound equivalent occurs in syllable characters. But this is a normal situation for Turkish native speakers. Because there is a vowel-harmony-rule in the structure of the Turkish language.

To give a clear example, if there is an E sound in a Turkish word, A, O, I cannot exist in the same word. That is, according to the first vowel, the reader correctly reads the remaining vowels. In other words, it doesn't make a big difference if they are shown with the same sign. If there is an E sound in any word, if there will be one or more vowels in that word, they can definitely be among the Ü, İ, Ö sounds.

That is, the vowels A, O, I, U never come together with the members of the E, Ö, İ, Ü group in a word. Exceptions can be seen in words transferred to Turkish from another language or in case of deterioration in the phonetic structure of words in some dialects... etc.

There are, of course, words that create confusion in such texts. For example, the words OLMAK (existing, being, 'borning) and ÖLMEK (to die) are different words with some opposite meanings. Here, such words create trouble in the form of writing with an alphabet that does not distinguish between A and E and no distinction between O and Ö. But in this case, the subject flow and semantic content in the sentence tells us which one we should read. The same was true of the person who read these texts 600 years ago. (In fact, I have explained all these in detail before, but I repeat them from time to time, as here.)

Thank you for quoting one of our sentence reading examples here again. We have used the same ATA transcription table for all the words and phrases we have read so far. Any linguist who will look at them carefully and genuinely will see the consistency in our readings. Many linguists have already done this in detail and have correctly evaluated the points you see as shortcomings or fault.

If you are not a linguist who speaks the Turkish language, it is natural to be mistaken when making such assessments.

In the sentence you have chosen, we have translated the word ER into the modern Turkish language in the same way (as always) and in the same sense. In every word and sentence translation, we show the phonetic structure of the related word and find that word on at least 1 dictionary page. Moreover, we often explain the way words are pronounced in different dialects by citing sources, so that we usually given the reader an idea about how Turkish words have evolved in terms of phonetic values.

When doing any transcription work and reading any word or giving an etymological source explanation for a word, we always try to reference the oldest written sources we can find. While doing all of this, we definitely use well-known and accepted methods that have been used many times by linguists.

Now, if there is someone who sees an inconsistency in our readings or if you want to criticize in any detail, please criticize by following this path or mention the details that you think are inconsistent:

1- Please try to ask only and only consistent questions without leaving the approaches accepted by linguistics. While doing this, please definitely choose a specific example and show that in the example you have chosen, "we concluded X in our A reading and Y in our B reading", that is, if we explained different results in our two readings for a same part. In doing so, show your evidence by referring to our articles or articles here.

2- If you are going to criticize ourYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.transcription table, please see  if your criticism is outside the criteria of linguistics first. 
For example, if you see that in our list of syllable characters, we have matched three or four sounds in exchange for an alphabet syllable-sign (so that this is a very natural situation for Turkish because of the vowel harmony rule I explained before), then you remember that same situation has been accomplishmed by linguistics for many reading example of Hittite inscriptions before. And please Do not forget that linguistics read Hittite inscriptions by using approximately 5 different phonetic value for one single sign time by time. That formats and this type of reading is considered successful by linguistics for Hittite inscriptions (& for many other inscriptions), and they use the information obtained from this type of reading in hundreds of history books and thousands of articles.

If you think that we have mapped more than one sound value to one syllable characters, first go back and point out that linguistic scientists should review their academic criteria on these subjects and make the criteria more specific and that their reading may be wrong. Do this so that you have the right to bring the same criticisms to us later.

3- If you want to explain the etymological root of any word, show the word you want to explain in the oldest written source you can reach. But while doing this, try to present the new and old forms being compared by referring to (also showing the evidence) that they are the same or close in meaning or phonetic value. 

4- If you are working on etymological roots, you should always refer to a real old written source as evidence. Do not link any word to an imaginary (presumed past) source as the oldest root word. Because this is a common practice that linguistics falls into and cannot find a way out of, but produces plenty of imaginary roots. 

For example, we are indicate the oldest written sources in Turkish texts for the word AR / ER, the linguistics that ignores this and refers to fictitious sources should question itself because it is inconsistent.

When you and we all evaluate any article, we should act by knowing how its historical and linguistic counterparts are evaluated, and we should never depart from scientific methods. Although the languages researched using scientific methods are different, If similar results are obtained by following the same method for the compared studies, we cannot show them as like contradictory results. In other words, if the method used and the results obtained are the same, the explanations in the result should not be contradictory.

In other words, questions and criticisms should be consistent and studied as well as claims.

Thanks

A. Ardıç

As we encounter in many pages in VMS, word repetitions are frequently seen both in the old Turkish period and in modern Turkish.

In all periods of written Turkish, word repetitions are seen up to quintuple repetitions, and each of the words repeated side by side can form a complete sentence with a different meaning, and in addition to this, repetitions in Turkish have multiple functions. I won't go into details here again, because I was share many old text to prove that point in detail before in this platform.

Word repetitions in poetic expression occur in many languages. This may not be a surprising situation, but Turkish and VM texts overlap in terms of word structure and the frequency of word reduplications in texts. Below you can find two examples. One of them is parts of a poem. The other one has some Turkish sentence examples on the google translate page. (Note: Although artificial intelligence cannot fully translate these word repetitions into English, the sentence structure of these Turkish sentences is within the integrity.)

You can see in the First Example;

The "vur ha vur" repetitive parts of the poem named CAZGIR written by Atilla İlhan are as follows.

Vur, ha vur, vur davul baş pehlivan havası,
Vur, ha vur, vur davul gürlemenin sırası,
Vur, ha vur, vur davul dağları taşları titret,
Vur, ha vur, vur davul gök yerinden kaymalı,

In the example below, there is an image of an artificial intelligence reading. Look carefully at the words in Turkish sentences here. These sentences can be considered as exaggerated examples of word repetitions, and we can only construct a sentence from words that start with the same syllable in Turkish if we want it. Because the same word can change meaning according to its place in the sentence and the words next to it. In other words, even if they do not all consist of reduplications as look like as Indo European "similars", they may appear to be structurally so. For this reason, if you do not know Turkish, you may think that it is not a natural language by looking at it as a photograph, and you may even perceive structures without prefixes as prefixes. Without fully understanding the grammatical and lexical structure of Turkish, I hope you will notice the "unusual looking structure", even with mere photographic comparisons (not similar to Indo-European and Semitic languages).

Don't you think there is a structural overlap between the photographic structure you will see below and the VM texts? If you carefully chart the visual patterns, you can see the overlaps. (You may remember that I gave examples from ancient manuscripts and showed the same structural overlaps. The following are examples from modern Turkish.) Now, if possible, reconsider your judgments using even your EVA table , assuming that each "DAIN" word in repetitions such as "DAIN DAIN" or "DAIN DAIN DAIIN" of each (DAIN or any other word) has been a different meaning in Turkish to have a full sentence in many time. Please see this table below:

[attachment=7241]

Thanks

Note: When we create word repetition structures with using same word, the google AI often makes mistakes when translating them, but the translations will still give you an idea. For example, the machines make mistakes such as the mistakes in the section whose background I have marked in yellow. In the image below, it is actually in the part marked with the yellow background color parts read as; "giderse (if he goes), gidersen (if you go), gidersem (if I will go), gidersek (if we will go)". The machine translated them to English as being in the wrong form "as supposedly in same meaning". However, there is no error or break in Turkish sentence structures and meanings.
[attachment=7246]

Ahmet if you have cracked the code, please just decode the whole thing

My idea on trying to find a language that fits the VMs is like seeing faces or animals in clouds. We will just remain in the illusion of progress. I say, since the script is new, the language is also new, and probably has its own rules. Plus, just if the writers were polyglot people, there is no way one could predict what language features they put into the VMs.

Ahmet if you have cracked the code, please just decode the whole thing
[/quote]



When we first decrypted the alphabet transcriptio code, we noticed that 21% of the words had not changed their phonetic value at all in the intervening 600 years, and some of tham can be read in a form that very small and familiar (known) phonetic change. At that time, we were thought we could read all 240 pages quickly.

Later, we realized that there is top-down coding in the first letter of each line in the content. 

After that, we tried to read the manuscript from the beginning. It was from that moment that we realized that we could not finish this type of reading quickly without prof.-help.

There are many abbreviated words in the content. For example, the word ÇOCUK (CHILD) is written in the form of ÇCK and so on. In addition, there are special names such as drug names made from plant mixtures and some plant names in the content, and we find it difficult to read them. In addition, we read a personal name in the content that is not seen among the human names in Turkish (which we think may be from the names found in Europe at that time).

For this abbreviated words, nouns & pronouns variety reason, sentence reading studies have not progress as fast as we hoped in the first years estimation.

Another reason for our slow progress is that we have to devote only our spare time to this work.

We've deciphered some abbreviations so far, so we've been able to read some full pages, and we think our readings are mostly correct. However we think that linguists can help us to correct our possible mistakes.

In addition, many words are read clearly on each line of each page throughout 240 pages, and when we read them together with the abbreviations we deciphered, we can see logical overlaps with the drawings in the content.

Despite all this, the complete deciphering of every word and every sentence for 240 pages can be achieved with the support of experts in many different fields. For example, volunteers who have an idea about medical terminology 600 years ago are needed. Likewise, we need volunteers who are knowledgeable about 600 years ago drug names, plant names, and toponym names etc.

We have limited info about old Europe toponyms, plant and drug names, medical terminology for that period and ancient star names etc. Because of that, we read a lot of academic articles on these subjects and we take note of the proper names and some critical words in these articles. On the other hand, if there are volunteers whose field of work is in these disciplines, the text-reading work in the VM-content will accelerate. We also need the support of linguists. 

This type of reading work, which requires complex writing style that is difficult to read, and requires expertise from many different disciplines and old terminology, should be progressed with volunteers who have knowledge in multi-faceted fields.

Actually we give the ATA read key and show that this key works to read. There is no miracle or extraordinary situation in the content other than those I have mentioned. We continue our reading studies and our aim is of course to have read all 240 pages.

In fact, my studies in linguistics, which have been going on since 1992, are the things I personally like to engage in. On the other hand, in the course of my life, I actually have to devote a very small part of my total time to my research in the field of linguistics. I hope one day I will have a chance to change my order of priorities. If all of these things happen, it will be possible to accelerate the reading work for us and we are actually trying to reach the goal that you simply expressed in a single sentence.

However, we are slowly moving towards that our VM related goal, contrary to what we had previously envisioned. We are progressing slowly, but we are confident and we make maximum efforts to ensure that our work does not go out of the scientific framework.

Thanks,

(10-03-2023, 07:25 AM)Arichichi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[My idea on trying to find a language that fits the VMs is like seeing faces or animals in clouds. We will just remain in the illusion of progress. I say, since the script is new, the language is also new, and probably has its own rules. Plus, just if the writers were polyglot people, there is no way one could predict what language features they put into the VMs.]

The coding here was not done in the ways that many people had predicted before. First of all, a complex alphabet with multiple phonetic structures and difficult to read was created here in VM. Deciphering this alphabet was already difficult for readers 600 years ago. Because when the texts were written, they were not written with the intention that they could be read fluently by ordinary people. The texts were written in a complex alphabet developed to make them difficult to read.

Moreover, abbreviations were created. All these elements already made reading quite difficult 600 years ago, since VM-pages were written for one or a limited number of people (may be for several people) to read, and we can guess that particular people already had the alphabet & abbreviations key.

Despite all this, there is no need to be pessimistic because we now have a key to read them. Using it, we or others (anyone who wants to read it) can read the texts, but provided that we find the meanings of abbreviations and some nouns etc.

Thanks,

Ahmet Ardıç,

I'm sure if I use your methodology, I could claim that the text was written in Ancient Egyptian and try to decode it from that framework, is all I'm saying...