The Voynich Ninja

Morten I don't care what medieval academics say (well, maybe some of them if they've been looking at original sources rather than pirating each other).

I care about what I see manuscripts. And what I see written on fly leaves is medicinal recipes, many of them, and liver was a common ingredient.


What this means is that the person who suggested the pox leber reading is proposing something completely believable and rational for the time.

(20-09-2019, 11:06 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Morten I don't care what medieval academics say (well, maybe some of them if they've been looking at original sources rather than pirating each other).

I care about what I see manuscripts. And what I see written on fly leaves is medicinal recipes, many of them, and liver was a common ingredient.

What this means is that the person who suggested the pox leber reading is proposing something completely believable and rational for the time.

JP, I think you are exaggerating here. Not in a million years will I believe that the word "leber" was commonly seen on the fly leaves of medieval manuscripts, and I even find it doubtful that another instance of "pox leber" can be found on any fly leaf. To the contrary, "liber" may have been somewhat commonplace. In fact, just yesterday I read that one of the Sworn Books was inscribed "Sum Ben: Jonsonij liber."

The liver concept surely gathers support from institutionalized ignorance to the effect that quire 20 (which immediately precedes leber) comprises cooking instructions, and liver, of course, is something that can be cooked. This worries me: with all the zombies of Western civilization anticipating medieval recipes, it might become nearly impossible to convince anyone to take a serious look at a decoding that produces prophecies. Is it possible to do a Press Release in China?

I am just trying to imagine what this discussion would have looked like, if the top line of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. had not referred to the rather innocent 'poxleber' but instead to cat brains.

From a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. quoted by David Jackson, we know that also cat brains were playing a role in medicine (toxicology) in the middle ages... It puts the discussion about he unlikelihood of goat liver in a different perspective.

(22-09-2019, 06:13 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(20-09-2019, 11:06 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Morten I don't care what medieval academics say (well, maybe some of them if they've been looking at original sources rather than pirating each other).

I care about what I see manuscripts. And what I see written on fly leaves is medicinal recipes, many of them, and liver was a common ingredient.

What this means is that the person who suggested the pox leber reading is proposing something completely believable and rational for the time.

JP, I think you are exaggerating here. Not in a million years will I believe that the word "leber" was commonly seen on the fly leaves of medieval manuscripts, and I even find it doubtful that another instance of "pox leber" can be found on any fly leaf. To the contrary, "liber" may have been somewhat commonplace. In fact, just yesterday I read that one of the Sworn Books was inscribed "Sum Ben: Jonsonij liber."

...

I am not exaggerating. These kinds of ingredients are regularly mentioned in herbal manuscripts as well. They are not only on fly leaves.

Medieval books regularly mention "prescriptions" that seem strange to us, like bat's blood (this is also found in Egyptian medicine), boar bile, bird blood, etc., etc., as well liver and other body parts as regular ingredients of medicinal charms, recipes, and incantations.


And yes, I agree with Tentakulus, and it may have been VViews who posted some good visual examples, but the drawing top left looks like a carcass hung to drip and cure. Drawings of butchered animals hanging from hooks are common in books of health from the 14th and 15th centuries. But maybe you don't believe that either.

(22-09-2019, 10:07 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The word "Leber" is also due to the fact that just below it stands a drawing with the insides of an animal.

...and the animal is a goat, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. shows the two horns curving backwards, not antlers, which are branched.
My 2 cents worth.

(22-09-2019, 06:46 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am just trying to imagine what this discussion would have looked like, if the top line of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. had not referred to the rather innocent 'poxleber' but instead to cat brains.

From a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. quoted by David Jackson, we know that also cat brains were playing a role in medicine (toxicology) in the middle ages... It puts the discussion about he unlikelihood of goat liver in a different perspective.

In my last post I noted that a copy of the Sworn Book of Honorius (our guide to decoding the VMS) was inscribed with "Sum Ben: Jonsonij liber".

That should erase all doubt that "liber" rather than "leber" was the intention because, in MSG Theory, the person named in that inscription became a close personal friend of the author of the VMS marginalia.

(22-09-2019, 10:49 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And yes, I agree with Tentakulus, and it may have been VViews who posted some good visual examples, but the drawing top left looks like a carcass hung to drip and cure. 

I had qualms with those of you who claimed that it was a medieval stove (presumably used for cooking goats) but I have no problem with it being a carcass. Only I would add that it has to be the carcass of a marsh deer (depicted), not the carcass of a goat.

For something less ambiguous, please look at the following drawing where you see the carcass of spotted jaguar that was just conquered (note the raised right hand signaling triumph over the predator animal):



She is about to wash the carcass in the clean blue water you see in the barrel. It was normal procedure to wash carcasses in clean water.

(22-09-2019, 10:49 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Drawings of butchered animals hanging from hooks are common in books of health from the 14th and 15th centuries. But maybe you don't believe that either.

Since you are an expert in medieval butchery, then surely you recognize the instrument that the gal on the right is holding in her hand. It was the standard medieval instrument for removing animal hair from the carcass. Using both hands they would hold the instrument by its outer handles and use the curved blade to scrape the hide.

Apparently the gal holding the instrument, doubtless a parchment-making student of the instructor on the left, is dreaming about making herself a skirt out of animal skin.

I find it very sad that institutionalized ignorance on the made-in-northern-Italy theme (now extended to northern Europe by some) makes you guys incapable of seeing that the VMS depicts the real experiences of real women trying to survive in a real tropical swamp.

(22-09-2019, 06:41 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.real women trying to survive in a real tropical swamp.

Wouldn't you expect a few more trees and alligators then?

Why is she naked and standing in the barrel for washing the carcass?