The Voynich Ninja

Quote:Morten: With you guys endlessly disparaging the VMS on goat's liver

In the Middle Ages, goat's liver (and other kinds of liver) were commonly eaten and used in medicinal recipes.

It definitely does not say "liber". The way it is written is an "e". It was a common way to write "e". I have never ever seen "i" written that way in a medieval manuscript.

The last letter can be disputed since it is partly rubbed and indistinct. It might be leber or leben.


Why would goat's liver be disparaging? It was very common for healing incantations and medicinal recipes to be added to the beginnings and ends of manuscripts. Very common. It might not be a medicinal recipe, but even if it isn't, there's nothing disparaging about it if it is goat's liver.

The word "Bock" does not necessarily denote a goat, it stands for the male animal. It could also be a ram. Possibly the same as in the signs of the zodiac.

Example for Bock in german :, Steinbock, Ziegenbock, Rehbock, Schafbock .... usw, einfach männlich. Schaf, Schafbock.

english :ibex, goat, roebuck, ram, etc., simply male. Sheep, ram.

(19-09-2019, 10:43 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The word "Bock" does not necessarily denote a goat, it stands for the male animal. It could also be a ram. Possibly the same as in the signs of the zodiac.

Example for Bock in german :, Steinbock, Ziegenbock, Rehbock, Schafbock .... usw, einfach männlich. Schaf, Schafbock.

That's true, the modern Dutch for Capricorn is still "steenbok". The word "bok" in isolation would most often be interpreted as the male of the goat though. But it's possible that in the context of whoever wrote that message in the VM, one of the other meanings was primary.

(19-09-2019, 10:13 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In the Middle Ages, goat's liver (and other kinds of liver) were commonly eaten and used in medicinal recipes.

It definitely does not say "liber". The way it is written is an "e". It was a common way to write "e". I have never ever seen "i" written that way in a medieval manuscript.

The last letter can be disputed since it is partly rubbed and indistinct. It might be leber or leben.

Are you claiming that the dot above the last letter belongs to the last letter, or that we should simply pretend that this dot does not exist?

Let's make something clear: the first two words of the marginalia on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (your pox leber) were not written to be understood by you. They were written to be noticed by someone who knew that the most famous prophecy of that epoch began with the words por liber. This inspires him to look at the rest of the marginalia and notice more words drawn from that same prophecy.

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(19-09-2019, 10:13 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font]
Why would goat's liver be disparaging? It was very common for healing incantations and medicinal recipes to be added to the beginnings and ends of manuscripts. Very common. It might not be a medicinal recipe, but even if it isn't, there's nothing disparaging about it if it is goat's liver.

Did you notice that the film used the words "disappointing" and "mundane" in connection with your pox leber? For sure, goat's liver hardly raises the VMS to the lofty ideals expressed by Voynich.

Without getting involved in big discussions, but I don't see any point above the first "e" either. The words " leber or leben " are plausible.

Pheromones should not be underestimated in medicine, and they are strong only in male animals.

(19-09-2019, 02:32 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Without getting involved in big discussions, but I don't see any point above the first "e" either. The words " leber or leben " are plausible.

Pheromones should not be underestimated in medicine, and they are strong only in male animals.

I contend that the marginalia on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. links a specific prophecy of four verses to its source, namely, to four red-star sections of script on f104r.

You will find evidence for such a contention on the following webpage:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

In light of more recent research, that webpage is going to undergo substantial revision but the first part on the marginalia is unlikely to change much.

Note that I post in this thread largely for the benefit of people looking for new ideas on resolving the mysteries of the VMS, not for people mainly interested in goat's liver and their pheronomes.

You keep saying "your" pox leber. It is NOT my interpretation. I told you this before. It is someone before me and as I have said in numerous previous posts, I will support his interpretation (among others) because it is reasonable and defensible (not because it is mine).

It belongs on the list of possible interpretations and it is certainly more defensible than your reading of the word as "liber". There is no "i" in leber/leben. The letter "i" was never written that way.

(20-09-2019, 12:15 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You keep saying "your" pox leber. It is NOT my interpretation. I told you this before. It is someone before me and as I have said in numerous previous posts, I will support his interpretation (among others) because it is reasonable and defensible (not because it is mine).

It belongs on the list of possible interpretations and it is certainly more defensible than your reading of the word as "liber". There is no "i" in leber/leben. The letter "i" was never written that way.

JP, The very fact that you cannot read a single word of the main body of the VMS makes it self-evident that not everyone in medieval times expressed themselves in a way that was clear, direct, intelligible and honest.

What makes you think that the author of the marginalia could not be following in the footsteps of the VMS authors?

As I was saying, the word leber is depicted with the dot of an i above the r. For you, that dot is just a stray mark. For me, it is a signal to change one of the e's to an i.

I believe you might find it less frustrating limiting your activities to Roman Catholic literature, which probably constitutes more than 99% of the surviving medieval manuscripts. As the great Wilfrid himself noted, the VMS is Black Magic. It's definitely not for you.

I have spent FAR FAR more time in my life reading black magic and other occult literature than I have Catholic literature. I especially enjoy books on kabbalah.

(20-09-2019, 07:43 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have spent FAR FAR more time in my life reading black magic and other occult literature than I have Catholic literature. I especially enjoy books on kabbalah.

Then surely you must know that people sometimes wrote without clarity to evade the wrath of the Inquisition.

I think you should conduct a survey of medieval academics asking them which would they more expect to find written on the last page of a medieval herbal: the Latin word "liber" meaning book or the German word "leber" meaning liver. Sometimes it isn't enough to be technically correct. The answer also has to make sense.