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(18-02-2019, 11:47 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JP, We seem to agree that whatever it is, a 5 or a g, it has a macron (bar) which is really all I care about.

No, if it is a "g" (which is the most likely interpretation), then there is no macron. The crossbar is simply part of the letter.

A macron is an abbreviation symbol. If it is a "y" than it is "y" with a macron (abbreviation). If it is "g", there is no macron.
(19-02-2019, 03:59 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(18-02-2019, 11:47 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JP, We seem to agree that whatever it is, a 5 or a g, it has a macron (bar) which is really all I care about.

No, if it is a "g" (which is the most likely interpretation), then there is no macron. The crossbar is simply part of the letter.

A macron is an abbreviation symbol. If it is a "y" than it is "y" with a macron (abbreviation). If it is "g", there is no macron.

You are perfectly correct: I should have said y instead of g. Meanwhile, I've noticed that in medieval handwriting, the letter Lamed tends to slant to the left creating a v-like shape in the middle. You'll notice that the 5 of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is slightly slanted to the left. I'm fairly confident that an allusion to Lamed is at least one of the intentions of the author.
If you keep calling it a 5 because you want it to be a 5 (to support your theories), it's not going to get you to the truth.
(19-02-2019, 03:59 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A macron is an abbreviation symbol.

Yes, but I do not think this is the case for the macron over Lamed on f57v. Here I view Lamed as representing the number 30 rather than a letter, and I view the macron as as representing a) one half of a double bar and b) a distance of 30 pages. Thus, we observe that f57 lies in the middle between the 42-letter name (f42) and the 72-letter name (f72): 42 + 15 = 57 + 15 = 72. It is safe to conclude that the order of VMS pages was carefully prearranged.

(19-02-2019, 09:37 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you keep calling it a 5 because you want it to be a 5 (to support your theories), it's not going to get you to the truth.

I no longer think it's a 5. I now think it's a 30.
(05-12-2018, 10:58 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's not a teepee and we don't know what it is. If we did, it wouldn't quite be the "world's most mysterious manuscript".

Koen G, I'd like you know that I fully understand your position. In view of highly popularized speculations that the VMS was compiled in Italy, and with carbon analysis indicating a creation date many decades prior to the arrival of Columbus, most people would venture to say that there isn't a chance in hell that the VMS could be depicting the portable housing of the Plains Indians of North America.

Moreover, tepees lack support from within the VMS itself, for example, there are no direct depictions of the native Americans who would have lived in them. To all appearances, therefore, for the tepee to be a tepee, the 16th-century owners of the VMS must have decided to purge the manuscript of all depictions of the Americas and its inhabitants. With England facing invasion and book-burning terror by the Spanish and its Inquisition, it isn't hard to imagine a motive for doing that. Hence, the original VMS had to have been much larger than the manuscript currently at Yale; how much larger is unknown. It looks like even the astrology section, unrelated to native Americans, may be missing half its pages: ten pages of clothed people and two pages of naked women. Possibly only the stars section, alleged to encode a lost work of divine revelation, escaped the purge intact.

Also surviving the purge would be depictions of things that were unknown to or unidentifiable by people in England during the 16th century, like the armadillo and, of course, our tepee. That has to be why we see a tepee in the manuscript today: they simply didn't know what it was having explored, at that time, no more than a part of Virginia, located far from the Great Plains.

[Image: img-vms-heretic-lodgings.jpg]

Here we see the tepee on the far right. Note the crisscrossed logs coming out the top corresponding precisely with what we can view on Google images for tepees. All of the images depicted here, including the tepee, surround a field of martyrs whose souls are represented by stars. What do all these depictions have in common, or, what could they all have in common?

Answer: All these images could be depicting the earthly housing of the believers prior to their martyrdom whereupon they ascended to the spiritual world (depicted in other parts of the rosettes folio). As lodging, what looks like a tepee would most certainly be a tepee. And let's not forget that the tepee Indians hunted bison, a close relative of domestic cattle, whose skin would have provided plenty of parchment for the VMS.

It is important to resolve the issue of the tepee: it seems no one wants to give serious consideration to my 72-letter theory for decoding the VMS because the 72 letters were likely unknown to Italian monks during the 15th century. But they would have been known to European missionaries who arrived at the Great Plains in the 13th century with the objective of making converts there.
Morten, the reason I don't like your teepee idea has nothing to do with Europe or Italy or any of the things you've mentioned.

As I said, I grew up with teepees. They don't look like that. The way the VMS illustrator drew things was not perfect, but it was better than that.
(21-02-2019, 08:03 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Morten, the reason I don't like your teepee idea has nothing to do with Europe or Italy or any of the things you've mentioned.

As I said, I grew up with teepees. They don't look like that. The way the VMS illustrator drew things was not perfect, but it was better than that.

JP, If you wish to reject my tepee suggestion outright you should at least have the goodness to tell us what you think it is so that we can compare ideas.

[Image: img-vms-tepees-wikimedia.jpg]

In all cases, I see a sharply slanted opening on the top, I see crisscrossed twigs shooting upwards, and I see irregular bulges on the sides. What, specifically, JP, makes you think the VMS tepee is not a tepee?

While you're here, I'm wondering if you could kindly let us know what type of architecture we see in this VMS image:

[Image: img-vms-spiral-towers.jpg]

In what country could we expect to see an edifice that looks like that prior to the year 1250?
(21-02-2019, 02:00 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[Image: img-vms-tepees-wikimedia.jpg]

In all cases, I see a sharply slanted opening on the top, I see crisscrossed twigs shooting upwards, and I see irregular bulges on the sides. What, specifically, JP, makes you think the VMS tepee is not a tepee?

Hi Morten St. George,

You're working with a blurry photo.
Let me insert the same photo with a higher resolution.

[attachment=2684]

Do you always see a tepee ?
I don't know what it's intended to be, but the top of the VMS texture is not made of poles like a teepee. It is much more similar to medieval drawings of winds or waters that are whooshing out of mouths or other kinds of openings.

The texture doesn't look like skins, either. Teepee skins are not scaly, nor are they layered in concentric rings.

And I've never seen a teepee with regularly spaced holes or circles, like a deliberate pattern.
(21-02-2019, 07:13 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know what it's intended to be, but the top of the VMS texture is not made of poles like a teepee. It is much more similar to medieval drawings of winds or waters that are whooshing out of mouths or other kinds of openings.

The texture doesn't look like skins, either. Teepee skins are not scaly, nor are they layered in concentric rings.

And I've never seen a teepee with regularly spaced holes or circles, like a deliberate pattern.

Thanks JP. It's certainly helpful having a computer screen with good resolution! I'll concede that, instead of a tepee, it could be depicting a conduit holding the souls (represented by circles) of people who failed to achieve perfectus status and are currently in limbo awaiting rebirth (reincarnation) in the material world. This contrasts with the perfecti (represented by stars on the rosettes page) who have achieved eternal life in the spiritual world thereby escaping the cycle of rebirths.

I've had a Made-in-the-Americas theory for the VMS long before I ever noticed the tepee and I still maintain that theory. The marginalia links to external works that establish a strong connection with the Americas including implications that the VMS employs native American languages to a considerable extent.

Indeed, it seems the decoders of the VMS prophecies arranged for a linguist by the name of Thomas Harriot to be sent to the Americas for the specific purpose of creating a phonetic alphabet of native American languages. This could imply the possible reuse of the glyphs to represent native American words or sounds and in all likelihood those decoders were never able to decipher or read the botanical and other sections of the VMS.

My advice to contemporary cryptographers is to concentrate on the stars section of the VMS as it may be the only section representing (in this case also encoding) Old World languages. Imagine a Christian missionary carrying a Latin Bible with him when he goes into the jungle to make converts. The same logic applies here. The stars section contains the sacred text of their religion.