The Voynich Ninja

I was thinking that as the hat, when found elsewhere, appears to be associated with hunting, that this clarifies the intended use of the crossbow, and it is not meant as a weapon of war.

(02-03-2019, 07:45 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are several here from Koen's collection. 

In what country and in what century would you say that the hat and tail of the VMS Sagittarius was the most popular?

(02-03-2019, 08:13 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I was thinking that as the hat, when found elsewhere, appears to be associated with hunting, that this clarifies the intended use of the crossbow, and it is not meant as a weapon of war.

I think someone said that it is a participant in a Venice archery tournament of the 15th century. That should make JP happy.

(02-03-2019, 07:55 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It made more sense when it was a business meeting. Now it is just random dead people and no longer supports your socioreligious theory about the Cathars and the status of women.

You make a good point. The depicted men and women were surely connected when alive. Most likely, they were perfecti, that is, the lay clergymen and clergywomen of the Cathars. The bulge in the middle of some of the men's hats may indicate some type of religious or professional status.

(02-03-2019, 07:55 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, i mean you said they migrated and wrote it then. On the vellum made of bison. Why would you want to test for bison protein if it is a copy of something made of bison?

The Beinecke VMS was tested for protein against protein samples taken from many animals including animals like squirrels but did not include bison. The family Bovidae (cows) gave the best match but bison are also of the same family and very close to cows (they can even interbreed). The objective of a new test would be to determine if bison protein gives as good or better match than cow protein.

We do not know on what type of material the initial writings were made. On f116v, the VMS depicts a marsh deer which could have provided parchment. The botanical and swamp sections of the VMS were obviously first written in the Americas. The astrology and deep text sections may have been brought to the Americas from Europe at the time of migration.

Morten, you are mistaken.

I posted numerous hats like the Sagittarius hat. I even found a couple with exceptionally long sock-tails like those worn by VMS Sagittarius.

If you look at this Google Image Search, you will see many hits from my blog site:

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Look at the one with the long red tail (it's from the back angle). You'll have to ignore the red cowl. It's part of the cape, not part of the hat, it just happens to be the same color.

Not only is the hat like VMS Sagittarius, with a rounded end, but he also has short legs, a pleated tunic, and sleeves that are very wide at the elbow.

In my opinion the oldest of the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries (1420's) shows some figures which are among the closest in dress and character to the VM archer. That's why I think his type has to be seen as a "dandy hunter", some member of the court or other noble who put on their best clothes for some leisurely hunting. I'm not saying the VM figure is exactly that, but surely of the same general type.



Note that the tapestry was dated, by professionals, to the 1420's in part based on these specific clothes.

(02-03-2019, 09:27 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(02-03-2019, 07:55 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It made more sense when it was a business meeting. Now it is just random dead people and no longer supports your socioreligious theory about the Cathars and the status of women.

You make a good point. The depicted men and women were surely connected when alive. Most likely, they were perfecti, that is, the lay clergymen and clergywomen of the Cathars. The bulge in the middle of some of the men's hats may indicate some type of religious or professional status.

Actually i think i remember someone saying it was a papal hat of some sort. How does that work into your theory?

(02-03-2019, 09:27 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You make a good point. The depicted men and women were surely connected when alive. Most likely, they were perfecti, that is, the lay clergymen and clergywomen of the Cathars. The bulge in the middle of some of the men's hats may indicate some type of religious or professional status.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone who jumps to conclusions as quickly as you do, Morten.

As I keep saying, this is not research.

Deciding what it is, at the drop of a hat, without evidence, is not research. It's storytelling. It's a completely different activity.

(02-03-2019, 09:15 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(02-03-2019, 07:45 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are several here from Koen's collection. 

In what country and in what century would you say that the hat and tail of the VMS Sagittarius was the most popular?

You should catch up on JKP's blog, he maps and dates his figure presentations. There appear to be examples from germany, france, england, all around the beginning of the 15th century.