The Voynich Ninja

(11-05-2019, 08:12 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I view it as essential that we all cooperate and work together if we are ever going to resolve the mysteries of the VMS. Each of us brings into play unique talents and knowledge and I'm sure by working together we can make a lot of progress.

I dispute this. Every predicate, phrase, and clause. Sentence and sentiment. No.

(11-05-2019, 08:10 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(11-05-2019, 07:03 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Really, you guys are hopeless. 

Lashing out at people just because they disagree with you is not an adult way of handling differences of opinion.

JP, That is not lashing out. It was nothing more than a friendly tease, sometimes employed by me to help get a point across.

I think you are often too serious and occasionally too quick to take offense when no offense was intended. Note that sometimes the best ideas arise when debaters are having fun.

Telling people they are hopeless when they present scholarly arguments is not a friendly tease.

This is not a beer party or a chat room. It's a research forum and your comments are contrary to forum rules—inappropriate.

(11-05-2019, 07:26 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Linda, JP now wants to de-emphasize northern Italy.

The only reason northern Italy comes into my theory is because the whole world does, or at least the ecumene as it was before tales of China came to the fore. The page on which the animal is found happens to be one that, in my interpretation, covers places in or near the Alps.

I am open to my id not being the case, but given my hypothesis leads to the alps on this page, i have yet to see a good reason why an armadillo or pangolin would be there, beyond a slight resemblance, and certainly neither are found in the Alps, which is why i am going with the ram identification.

I think that JKP stays even more open minded and therefore allows for all considerations, unless there is something that refutes the idea. I dont think he is de emphasizing anything, just trying to tell you that there is no proof of any of our ideas, we can only list what we think and try to support it with further observations, but nothing is proven one way or another.

For instance, I can see where you get the idea for swamp water, but the same imagery means mineralized water to me. 

(11-05-2019, 03:00 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just thought i would show that although it may look like an animal, the story could be quite different, but we can't really know what it is meant to portray until we can read the text and hopefully it will give us context.

I too am hoping that one day we will be able to read the VMS as I'm confident that it would vindicate many of my theories.
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Let's hope we find out some day.

(11-05-2019, 10:54 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Telling people they are hopeless when they present scholarly arguments is not a friendly tease.

This is not a beer party or a chat room. It's a research forum and your comments are contrary to forum rules—inappropriate.

OK. My apologies. Offense was not intentional.

(12-05-2019, 12:29 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(11-05-2019, 07:26 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I too am hoping that one day we will be able to read the VMS as I'm confident that it would vindicate many of my theories.

Let's hope we find out some day.

I'm afraid we might not have a lot of time to accomplish that task, but that's a long story not worth mentioning here.

After a second post on the stump prophecy, I plan to turn my attention to decoding, beginning with a study of Arabic. Two of my sources indicate that Arabic may have played some role in the encoding .

I here return to the analysis of the prophecy that I believe led to the depiction of stumps on the Rosettes Page:



We know it was deemed an important prophecy by virtue of its number, X-56 or 10-5-6, which relates to the first of the six directions of space as described in a mystic classic dating back to early medieval times:

"He looked upward and sealed ABOVE with Yod [10] He [5] Vau [6]."

Literal translation of the first two lines:

Royal prelate his "baissant" too shot up,
A great flow of blood shall come out of his mouth,

The "baissant" is in quotes because it is not a recognizable noun in French. From the context, "baissant" should relate to a body part which, when shot (French verb tirer), would result in internal bleeding. Possibilities range from the lungs on downwards.

By Morten St. George Theory, the author of the VMS marginalia was a contributing author of the Nostradamus quatrains that included and masked the VMS prophecies, and afterwards he wrote another book to accompany the quatrain book. Published in 1623, his second book contained secret communications that enabled the reader to identify and extract all 39 of the VMS prophecies from among the 942 quatrains published in the name of Nostradamus. The companion volume was also used to clarify dubious items in the French translation and that's where we must look for the true meaning of "baissant":



Here we see "baisant" in the second line, "baisee" a bit further down and then "buisse" en the last line which effectively gives us an excuse to insert another s into baisant. Note that by spelling "English" as "Anglish", the author alludes to the "Anglicque" in the next line of the prophecy. The only nearby word in the English text that points us to a body part is "Interpreter" found in the third line from the bottom.



This is the last line of the quatrain (not a VMS prophecy) III-26. Interpretez shall be the extipice (extispicy in English), a word that refers to prophesying on entails (intestines or internal organs). Thus, we can now interpret the verses as follows: Royal prelate (the pope) his intestines too shot up, a great flow of blood shall come out of his mouth (where the word "mouth" can also refer to an orifice or opening that looks like mouth). Presumably, it was not considered wise to disparage the pope in such a manner, which surely explains the use of "baissant".

MAY 1981

Pope John Paul II was shot in St. Peter's Square and he lost a massive amount of blood, nearly seventy-five percent of the total. His internal cavities filled up with blood and the surgeons had to use a suction pump to remove it to access and repair the damage.

Next line:

The Anglican reign by reign respires,

The word "Anglican" refers to the Church of England and in that context the phrase "reign by reign" could refer to a match up, that is, to a royal wedding.

JULY 1981

Two months after the assassination attempt against the pope, Prince Charles married Lady Diana Spencer in St Paul's Cathedral, an Anglican church.

Last line:

Long time dead alive in "Tunis" like a stump.

In modern French Tunis means Tunis (capital city of Tunisia) but elsewhere the VMS prophecies employ the old spelling Tunes:



As you can see, Tunis in VI-54 is Tunes and it's placed in an unmistakable North African setting. So if Tunes is Tunis, what's the "Tunis" of X-56? One possibility is that it is nothing more than a poetic contraction of The United States (TUniS).

MARCH 1981

Two months before the assassination attempt against the pope, there was an assassination attempt against the American president Ronald Reagan. In that attempt, Reagan's press secretary, James Brady, was shot through the head and for a long time he remained a human vegetable. Similar to how a stump lives on without the tree, Brady's body lived on without a brain: dead alive like a stump.

***

Though doubtless you all will disagree, I find this VMS prophecy to be potentially curious. Indeed, I find all the VMS prophecies to be potentially curious especially the dated ones once you establish the divine calendar and its range of application. And that's essentially why I take an interest in these prophecies and in the VMS as their vehicle of transmission: just curious about the curious.

With regard to VMS research, this post goes beyond providing a motive for the stump depictions on the Rosettes Page. It also provides a motive for encrypting all of quire 20 (which contains the prophecies) assuming people back in medieval times, like me today, thought those prophecies were curious.

By the 16th century, however, with the prior invention of the printing press, it was no longer necessary to encrypt the prophecies to protect them from destruction. All you had to do was openly publish them in a way that the Inquisition could not see them, and that is exactly what they did.

So many things here...seem wrong.

the numerology is interesting, dont know enough about it to comment against it but i have my doubts

Baissant is evidently the present participle of old French baisser. Other translations of this quatrain usually have the priest bowing down, although i could see other translations making more sense, like declining. i also dont think tire means shot in this context. If it did, wouldnt falling be enough? Why look for intestinal divination to be involved?

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So it seems you wanted entraiils to be involved, i can see no other reason for your round about usage of a word in another quattrain instead of the word used. I guess it wasnt enough to fit with the events you wanted to align to the prophesy.

Because they spell it Tunes in one quatrain, which puts it undeniably in northern Africa, the other (more usual, and completely current) spelling means it is a poetic contraction indicating the US? I thought you might pull George Washington getting sheep from Tunis into the explanation...too bad.

In terms of your prophesies, James Brady is like the stump? But it was the pope who got shot, why would they then travel backward in time and start talking about Brady? How does that make any sense in terms of the rosette stumps you identified, full of Cathar souls? How does the pope getting shot or the prince getting married figure into the stumps at all? Especially if Brady is the one like the stump? Not to mention living in Tunis.

You are right about one thing, i think.

Quote:doubtless you all will disagree

(12-05-2019, 08:08 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I here return to the analysis of the prophecy that I believe led to the depiction of stumps on the Rosettes Page:



We know it was deemed an important prophecy by virtue of its number, X-56 or 10-5-6, which relates to the first of the six directions of space as described in a mystic classic dating back to early medieval times:

"He looked upward and sealed ABOVE with Yod [10] He [5] Vau [6]."
...

It's not Prophecy 10 5 6.  It's 56 or 10  5  1 or 10 6 or 15 1.

But however you break it up, L V I  is not 10 5 6. You can't re-use the V (5).

(13-05-2019, 08:47 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So many things here...seem wrong.

the numerology is interesting, dont know enough about it to comment against it but i have my doubts

Baissant is evidently the present participle of old French baisser. Other translations of this quatrain usually have the priest bowing down, although i could see other translations making more sense, like declining. i also dont think tire means shot in this context. If it did, wouldnt falling be enough? Why look for intestinal divination to be involved?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

So it seems you wanted entraiils to be involved, i can see no other reason for your round about usage of a word in another quattrain instead of the word used. I guess it wasnt enough to fit with the events you wanted to align to the prophesy.

Because they spell it Tunes in one quatrain, which puts it undeniably in northern Africa, the other (more usual, and completely current) spelling means it is a poetic contraction indicating the US? I thought you might pull George Washington getting sheep from Tunis into the explanation...too bad.

In terms of your prophesies, James Brady is like the stump? But it was the pope who got shot, why would they then travel backward in time and start talking about Brady? How does that make any sense in terms of the rosette stumps you identified, full of Cathar souls? How does the pope getting shot or the prince getting married figure into the stumps at all? Especially if Brady is the one like the stump? Not to mention living in Tunis.

Linda, I posted that prophecy only as a "curiosity" and nothing more. My logic is that if I saw it as curiosity, maybe medieval people also saw in that way. In other words, I was suggesting a possible motive for employing encryption in the VMS.

By referring to it as a "curiosity", I was not ruling out the possibility of other translations and other interpretations. Indeed, there's been quite a bit of variety on that across the preceding four centuries.

Note that there's another "tiré" in quatrain V-2 and here even the charlatans usually translate it as "shoot", e.g., "where the other will shoot him in the forehead through his armour." In X-56, it seems a little awkward to shoot a "declining" (the translation of "baissant" you mention).

In regard to the drawings on the Rosettes Page, I am suggesting that what you think is a volcano could actually be a depiction of all of the following: a stump ("souche"), souls in limbo ("mort vif"), reincarnation ("respire"), a mouth ("bouche"), and the expulsion of blood ("flux de sang sortira").

More so than today, the medieval mentality was heavily absorbed into religion and creation themes. I've seen scholars remark that there was a surprising lack of religious drawings in the VMS. My response is that it would be virtually impossible for medieval people not to have religion on their mind (only here the religion is not Roman Catholicism which is what we normally see in medieval manuscript). I'm pretty sure the Rosettes Page is a grandiose depiction of their view of the afterlife.