Nakedness was an iconographic device to illustrate a number of conditions in the Middle Ages. It did not necessarily mean that the people were literally naked.
Most of the time it was used to show the viewer 1) that the people were dead or 2) that they were "lost souls" or 3) that they were beyond redemption, to distinguish them from other people in the drawing.
It was also used to illustrate people who had been or were going to be imprisoned (the nakedness was symbolic of belongings being taken away from prisoners).
(23-09-2019, 07:34 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In my experience, naked people being pushed in front of armed soldiers are neither happy nudist campers, nor a suitable for making jokes of.
I think you missed the point that I was trying to get across, which is that there were people who had motive to migrate to the Americas.
Non-mainstream religions were suppressed. Many believers in old or different religions emigrated.
Poverty was the strongest motivator, however. Many of the people who migrated to the Americas were basically wage-slaves with no possibility of advancement, or people who were not allowed to own land. In the Americas, there was lots of land. They didn't even have money for the boat fare. That's why so many went as indentured servants, taking 2 to 4 years of work to pay off their fares once they reached the New World.
(24-09-2019, 12:00 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Nakedness was an iconographic device to illustrate a number of conditions in the Middle Ages. It did not necessarily mean that the people were literally naked.
Most of the time it was used to show the viewer 1) that the people were dead or 2) that they were "lost souls" or 3) that they were beyond redemption, to distinguish them from other people in the drawing.
It was also used to illustrate people who had been or were going to be imprisoned (the nakedness was symbolic of belongings being taken away from prisoners).
I believe it was recorded that they were stripped of their possessions, but whether or not that included the clothing on their backs, I do not know. Nonetheless you make a good point: medieval drawings, including some seen in the VMS, could be symbolic in nature.
In the Middle Ages, the only possessions a lot of people had was clothing off their backs. Many of them had little else.
Even up until the 1950s, people emigrated to North America with no possessions at all other than the clothes on their backs and maybe one very small suitcase. Just enough money to last a couple of weeks to try to find work once they go to their destinations. This has changed. Now people require a certain level of money in order to qualify for immigration, but in the early days it was different.
As late as the 1800s, you could qualify to own hundreds of acres of land just by signing a form at the local office and then building a dwelling and logging 5 acres around the home to demonstrate that you had "developed" the land and were capable of managing it.
Some people didn't even build a real dwelling at first. What they did was chop down a very large tree (trees were so large in those days, you couldn't cut them at the base, you had to saw them about 8 feet above the ground to avoid the giant roots) and then burn out the center and they called that home until they were sufficiently established to build a real house.
(24-09-2019, 12:07 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Non-mainstream religions were suppressed. Many believers in old or different religions emigrated.
Poverty was the strongest motivator, however. Many of the people who migrated to the Americas were basically wage-slaves with no possibility of advancement, or people who were not allowed to own land. In the Americas, there was lots of land. They didn't even have money for the boat fare. That's why so many went as indentured servants, taking 2 to 4 years of work to pay off their fares once they reached the New World.
For Cathars of the 13th century, the choice was either take your chances on the open seas or be burned at the stake. It's not hard to imagine that some of them could have made it to America especially taking note of ocean currents that could carry boats from east to west.
(23-09-2019, 07:49 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.AND.... Ritual bathing during the time of menses, and bringing about memses (that is why the women are naked 
)
If you look carefully at the woman in the middle of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. she is seated on a "bench" of sorts, that is heated. The Voynich speaks of herbs for pain or to bring on menses.
History of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or menses in Jewish traditions.
"[i]“This time of the month is called Niddah, one translation meaning separation or make distant—a time for no physical contact with one’s spouse (the underlying meanings vs. what patriarchy has deemed it over the centuries has been an interesting read). And then to partake in mikvah after (a ritual bath usually from rainwater) during times of transition, many women also do this do during any transitional time in life if they so choose—from marriage to menopause and some less traditional do it after graduations).”"[/i]
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I've considered the possibility that some or many of the women depicted in the VMS could have been Jewish converts to Catharism. That would be one way of reconciling Jewish encryption with the outward expressions of Catharism seen in the VMS.
(24-09-2019, 12:37 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (23-09-2019, 07:49 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.AND.... Ritual bathing during the time of menses, and bringing about memses (that is why the women are naked )
If you look carefully at the woman in the middle of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. she is seated on a "bench" of sorts, that is heated. The Voynich speaks of herbs for pain or to bring on menses.
History of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or menses in Jewish traditions.
"[i]“This time of the month is called Niddah, one translation meaning separation or make distant—a time for no physical contact with one’s spouse (the underlying meanings vs. what patriarchy has deemed it over the centuries has been an interesting read). And then to partake in mikvah after (a ritual bath usually from rainwater) during times of transition, many women also do this do during any transitional time in life if they so choose—from marriage to menopause and some less traditional do it after graduations).”"[/i]
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I've considered the possibility that some or many of the women depicted in the VMS could have been Jewish converts to Catharism. That would be one way of reconciling Jewish encryption with the outward expressions of Catharism seen in the VMS.
If the carbon dating of the VMS is from 1402-1435 the Cathars were already gone. And the Jews were not exiled from Spain until around 1492 heading to the Americas, so it is a different unknown dialect before the fall of Constantinople. The flower page where everyone seems to think is a sunflower You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. is actually a King Protea and used to gather nectar for making a honey syrup for making cakes.
(23-09-2019, 11:56 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (23-09-2019, 07:23 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Cathars being expelled from Carcassonne in 1209"
Did you ever notice that the males in that medieval painting are dressed exactly like the VMS males?
![[Image: img-voynich-rainforest-romance.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-voynich-rainforest-romance.jpg)
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] (23-09-2019, 07:23 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[/font]So you mean they were not undressed because they were being expelled but because they preferred to walk around in the nude?
If you were to find yourself in a hot steamy swamp where the rainfall was constant, you too might consider removing your clothes.
(23-09-2019, 07:23 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And how could they go to America and back to Europe in 1209?
I'd date the departure for America a few decades later but what makes you think they returned to Europe?
As you can surmise from that image I just posted, the gals wanted nothing to do with sex, which means they would have become extinct by natural causes after having converted the natives to their religion, ie. the VMS had to have been compiled by pure-blooded native Americans.
Has no one notices the naked man on f72r1 It says "Adam elimination/diminished"