"The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you" I think may be applicable here
While I thought maybe the "?" identification might make a "u/v+?" into "m+i", I think changing it this much to make sense somehow would need a lot of comparisons
Then you have the issue that someone drew a billy goat under what is seen as "pocks leber" - plus what might be a "leb/lab" label, which I have seen a number of times as a short version of "leber" - You see it in cooking recipe titles a lot. The title will be "blah blah blah lab/leb/lob"(+er swish) then the writing under write out "leber".
Here is one I found quickly that looks a bit like "lob"
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It says "von rindes leb[er]", basically highlighting the text
(14-12-2025, 12:59 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It says "von rindes leb[er]", basically highlighting the text
What I was getting at is I think we have the same thing going on with the VMS text. So to think of a new reading for "leber" needs more proof than "what seems to make more sense"
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If we ever find any sense in the VMS...
I believe that the x in poxleber is a deleted letter. But unfortunately, that doesn't make it any better...
By the way, good and convincing comparison, Bluetoes, but that doesn't make it any better too, for the translation of the sentence.
That would make sense with ‘vmen’ actually pronounced ‘v'men’ “vomen” (from one) Feminine ‘vonere’ (from one).
Same as ‘v'bren’ pronounced (vebren)
(burn).
Very complicated for non-Alemannic speakers.
But I basically assume the VM is based on the Bavarian dialect, but how exactly is it there? I know it's similar. 200 km doesn't make much difference.
Das würde schon Sinn ergeben bei "vmen" eigentlich "v'men" gesprochen "vomen" ( von einem) Weiblich "vonere" (von einer).
Gleich wie "v'bren" gesprochen (vebren)
(verbrenn).
Für nicht alemannisch sprechende sehr kompliziert.
Aber ich gehe grundsätlich im VM vom bayrischen Dialekt aus, aber wie ist es da genau. Ich weiss es ist ähnlich. 200 Km machen da den Braten nicht fett.
(14-12-2025, 07:38 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That would make sense with ‘vmen’ actually pronounced ‘v'men’ “vomen” (from one) Feminine ‘vonere’ (from one).
Same as ‘v'bren’ pronounced (vebren)
(burn).
I'm undecided about the “v”; there are clearer “v/u” below, maybe possible.
but if you want it in German, then maybe that could make sense.
The first letter could be an “r”; I've included a version below where the dot of the “r” and its right hook almost merge with the “e.” That may also be the case here. And then you would have “re” followed by an “i,” which can also be found below, then ‘nen’ = “reinen” = "pure" or “purified” through penance, through suffering, through divine intervention..
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than the last word could be the german "Lutzifer"
The spelling with tz can be found based on the pronunciation [ˈluːtsifɛr], but it is not entirely correct. The "z" makes sense, the "t" can be verified by the letters below, as can the i. The u is recognizable, but the L would be a little strange.
If the second word is read as “pinen” from Middle High German: “pīnen / pīnegen” = to torment, torture, cause pain = (in the Rhineland dialect, we say Ping = pain, and there is also Pin = pain).
Then it says:
Poxleber pinen putrifer (a beautiful alliteration)
(Poxleber -> causes pain -> causes putrefaction = [possible flatulence])
Liver is a food that is very rich in protein and fat. In some people – especially those with sensitive digestion – this can lead to flatulence, bloating, or pressure in the abdomen.
(If you don't like the “r” in putrifer: In German dialect, maybe especially in relation to “flatulence,” it could also be pronounced and written humorously as Putzifer in some regions—but I haven't found any sources or evidence for this).
Has this already been suggested as a solution? I haven't looked through all 114 pages.
(16-12-2025, 08:37 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Poxleber pinen putrifer (a beautiful alliteration)
(Poxleber -> causes pain -> causes putrefaction = [possible flatulence])
If someone wanted to write: poxleber causes pain, there really should be a verb 'cause' in there.
Goat liver was used in recipes against night blindness, it was used by the Romans for divination, and it has been recorded in the later 15th C as a swear word.
I am not aware that it would be regular food.
These give some possible contexts.
I can't remember if I ever suggested that pmon could be p[ul]mon. This is somewhat attractive because the famous line of invective that has been quoted in this context says: "Ey schend sie poxleber und lung".
The liver and the lung seem to go together at least in this context, probably less as food or medicine.
(17-12-2025, 12:13 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If someone wanted to write: poxleber causes pain, there really should be a verb 'cause' in there.
The German word “peinigen” means “to torment” and is a verb that implies that someone/something is tormenting.
However, I did not mean that it is a complete sentence with a subject, predicate, and object, but rather a list in the form of alliteration. In other words: If you have pox liver, then agonizing pain and flatulence will follow.
This works particularly well in German because verbal nouns or infinitives are read as process markers. The meaning arises not syntactically, but temporally: step A -> step B -> step C.
The noun sets the state, the verbs unfold it processually.