I was looking at an old book called You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., it being an old guide to reading medieval writing styles and abbreviations.
Something I noticed on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., is that the way they're writing P looks a lot like voynich 4o.
But this got me thinking -- might it be that 4 and o are always together because it's actually one letter? Are there any examples where 4 is not followed by o?
Posted by: R. Sale - 06-09-2016, 07:20 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Hey, I'm all for constructive discussions. I'm even in favor of constructive investigations. The whole problem is that so much of the investigation of VMs illustrations is based on appearance - the interpretation of appearance, the comparison of appearance. And it seems pretty much a given fact in many instances, that some people are going to go one way on a particular comparison and others will go in another. How can this sort of dichotomy be avoided, if the intent of the VMs author is to actually communicate.
Instead of investigations based on appearance, a different method of investigation needs to be be applied. One in which the content illustrated in the VMs is not compared, but rather analyzed and quantified - in the very simplest of terms. This changes the comparison from visual to ideological and simply numerical. The twins of VMs Gemini do not look identical, but they are still a pair. And the two goats of the VMs Aries pages, despite their obvious visual differences, are clearly a pair as well. The operating paradigm is no longer simply visual. The paradigm is no longer qualitative; it is quantitative. It is binary. It is the presence of pairing at the start of the VMs Zodiac. And rather than being a complex and elegant sort of paradigm, pairing is one of the simplest and most basic of patterns. And it doesn't require a lot of discussion. Pairing either exists or it does not. And the difference from other paradigm proposals is that pairing does exist in these VMs pages because it was put there in the construction of these illustrations.
Any steganographers might want to try a little trick. Lay a sheet of blank paper over You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and cut out little holes so you can just see the two blue-striped patterns in the upper left part of that page. It's another pairing, not necessarily identical in appearance, but paired none the less. Hidden, yet paired by their historical grounding. Paired in the origins of a religious tradition. Confirmed repeatedly within the illustrations themselves, perhaps best, for an investigator well-acquainted with obscure heraldic furs.
How does an investigation proceed when the signs provided by old traditions are not understood?
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Another possible way to look at the folios 67r1 & 2 could come from a Solar Event like an eclipse. What was interesting is the South Node lines up with the dots from 67r2 from the solar fire image.
I went over the charts for Solar Eclipses from 1404-1438 and compared them to 67r2, but this one was special for 1431. The possibility of finding a date for the document is remote at best using this method. However I find it striking.
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The eclipse takes place in the evening in the sign of Aquarius; yet out of the charts, Aquarius is missing in the Voynich Manuscript with Taurus listed twice.
Also the following image on 67v1 shows the 2 suns that are have gone into flowers, just a thought.
Okay, so, my own favorite idea for the Voynich at this point is that some/most of the writing is nulls or other junk writing just put in to confuse things. I'm inclining to think that there was some kind of grille or lattice that one put over the page to obscure the unimportant writing, and that this device was at some time lost or destroyed, leaving us with the mystery we now have.
Reason for this is, I notice a particular diagonal line formed by the text on the left side of almost every page, like letters have been forced to fit into the space in a certain way, and I also see evidence of more such lines on nearly every page. I see also a strong tendency for certain shapes to repeat within some of these diagonal gatherings. Sometimes the diagonal lines might be partially left blank but the page regions that have writing still make the diagonal shapes.
The only idea I have for how to test this, would be to line up printouts of the pages over a light table, and compare the text placements on top of each other -- I would expect there to always be diagonal lines in all the same places if this were correct. The trouble is I cannot actually test it like that, because the MS was not flat-scanned -- the pictures we have are just photos of the open book, so the pages don't lay flat, and as a result they cannot be accurately compared due to arching, bending, camera angles and other distortions. (I mean, I can't even get the front and back edges of the same folio to line up accurately most of the time because of the way it was photographed -- and I know from having tried it, that if you can't get it to line up accurately it's hopeless to guess where the text truly does or doesn't overlap.)
Transcripts are useless for this because the actual number of letters wouldn't stay the same, just the page-placement (and it might even be that only parts and pieces of the individual letters are important.)
I've been trying various simple methods like looking at pages through cheese graters and laying sticks or strips of paper over them, but there are hundreds or maybe even thousands of possible combinations there (and of course I don't even know what language I'm looking for underneath.) I don't think the idea's been disproven yet, it's just I don't have a proper way to check it.
So, I am asking -- does anyone have any idea how I could perhaps check this, with available resources? Some way to see what parts of the pages are favored for writing?
If you can't understand what I'm talking about, feel free to ask more questions. I've been ridiculed elsewhere for asking for help with this, by people who can't seem to understand what I'm getting at.
A lot of sources speculate, that maybe, origin of this manuscript is Georgian.
I don't think so.
Why?
Because I'm Georgian and I don't see any similarities neither in writing style, possible grammar and by means of illustration.
If you want to check by yourself, here is huge PDF - 154mb, it has samples of almost all kinds of Georgian texts, from early 9th century to 19th century:
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(Please note, imagery is not given is not sorted by years, first it is sorted by subject - religious, literature, scientific, and then - years).
I don't see any similarities with Voynich script at all. From my point of vision, Voyinich fonts looks more like maybe cyrilic/greek origin, then Georgian or Armenian (which have similarities in glyphs, but totally different in spelling and reading).
And just have look at this book. It is same origin as Voynich manuscript is believed to be (herbia/medical/science and almost same era) and it depicts certain natural event. Can you guess it without google?
This is something that I've known for a while now, and I have kept it secret, but I think it's time to reveal it to the community. I also posted it to Stephen Bax's website and the VMS mailing list:
I have located about 26 patterns that the text breaks down into. Almost all of the Voynich text (170,000+ characters) may be formed from these 26 units. If there is no other way to explain why the manuscript does this, then this may be a clue to the solution of the manuscript.
Here are the patterns:
And here is an example using the patterns from the May Zodiac:
And here is an example from a random page, folio 9v:
Don't take my word for it - Print off the "Units of the Voynich script" and try to break down the text into the 26 (or 27) patterns that I've described. I find that they work 79 out of 80 times (maybe the Scribe made a spelling error on the exception!)
I believe that each unit may substitute for a Latin script letter. For example, qo = a, ar = b, y = (u)s, etc. We all know that these patterns keep re-appearing in the Voynich text, and they seem to have meanings independent of their words, or their location in words.
For example, we have daiin, but also qodaiin, chodaiin, qochodaiin, qoar, and qoaiin. It looks like these words are just composed of smaller building blocks: qo, d, aiin, ar, ch, etc.
So why am I posting this now?
1) I would like your feedback. Can these patterns be explained another way or other methods? Or could they really be the "alphabet" of the Manuscript?
2) If this is the key, then I'll need the community's help. Since I still don't know what language to look for, I would rule out phonetic patterns in languages that I'm not familiar with. If the manuscript is Italian or Hebrew, for example, I might never recognize it. I have tried some Latin and German substitution and got some grammatical Latin phrases, but they may be false positives.
Also, the Units chart may not be 100% correct. There may need to be changes (I'm not 100% certain about the last patterns).
But if this is the key, let the games begin!
I shall boldly put this thread in "Voynich talk", since technically it doesn't belong in "off topic".
While preparing my last blog post, I was looking for some particularly ugly/deformed nymph to illustrate a point. In fact, I was looking for the ugliest one. I soon realized that I alone was not up for the task, and I would need the help of the entire Voynich community. It's a true horror show in there.
That is why, ladies and gentlemen, I invite you all to the Blue Lion theatre for the first annual Miss Ugly Nymph Election 2016 (aka the MUNEs).
The rules are simple: candidates submit their ugliest nymph to the pageant, and in the end a poll will decide who takes the crown.
My champion will be the nymph Φρικιαστικός. She resides on f.84r and her hobbies include waving, hiding behind friends and standing in shallow water.
An exciting project is going on on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. We are gathering all possible readings for the marginalia on this folio. The goal is to compile a table with possible glyph readings. This thread is for the discussion of this project. I think the first questions we should ask are:
are there any problems with any of the proposed readings?
are there any additional readings for glyphs that have not yet been mentioned- regardless of whether the word would still make sense or not?
I will edit this first post to reflect the discussion in the thread and add stuff from the wiki. Anton and David, feel free to edit as well! I remove all things between brackets because we are looking for possible glyph readings, not for what people wish was there not for possible abbreviations yet. Duplicates are omitted. For references and background, see wiki.
Line 0
Code:
- poxleber umen putriter
- p**labo* pinŠn pati*er
Line1
Code:
- michiton oladabas + multos + te + tccr cerc + portas + M +
- an chiton olei dabas + multas + tc + tta cere + porta8 + n +
- nuchiton ola dabas + miltos + cc + tav terc + noovca8
- anthicon ola6..ba8. + m–Lcò8 + + tar cev‡ +
- anchiton + mlco8 + + tar tere +
- ancicon
Line2
Code:
- fix + man IX + mor IX + vix + altra + matura +
- siX + j?ariX + moriX + viX + abta + ma+ria +
- sis + marix + mo*ix + + alma + mama
- ix + andiix + + abia + ma(+)na +
Line3
Code:
- pals en pbrey so nim geismich o
- val8e^, vbreY o mm gas mich
- valsen ub ren gal
- pal8ch ubven
I believe everyone here will find this very interesting. The picture at the bottom of folio 66r shows a bloated woman on her back. I believe the text that is not in voynich, but straight Norwegian reads, "Jen a great deal of Greed".
![[Image: CrpP31MVYAAOJVB.jpg:large]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrpP31MVYAAOJVB.jpg:large)
![[Image: H_1658.JPG]](http://geomanuscript.ge/upload-files/samecniero/H_1658.JPG)
![[Image: line0.jpg?w=616]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/line0.jpg?w=616)
![[Image: line1.jpg?w=616]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/line1.jpg?w=616)
![[Image: line2.jpg?w=616]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/line2.jpg?w=616)
![[Image: line3.jpg?w=616]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/line3.jpg?w=616)
![[Image: 14212021_10208791363173208_4951981115639...e=583F0AAD]](https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14212021_10208791363173208_4951981115639348652_n.jpg?oh=5dc8f536520d90659220211643c30e37&oe=583F0AAD)