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• No text, but a visual code

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Jorge_Stolfi > 19-11-2025, 01:42 PM

  (19-11-2025, 08:35 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Please explain your theory in your own thread, or create one if you don't have one. Don't use mine to do so.

  
  You disparaged my theory here first. 
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 19-11-2025, 02:57 PM

  I did it after you had already started to express your ideas in this thread. Certainly, perhaps I should have stopped you sooner.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Jorge_Stolfi > 19-11-2025, 05:49 PM

  Sorry if I got carried away.  But the issue of retracing -- and, more generally, how the images came to be, -- is crucial for the topic of this thread.  Or for any investigation about the images.  That includes also the question of how detailed and accurate was the Author's draft, how much the Scribe made up or copied from other sources, how many errors he may have made, etc.
  
  I have seen far too many deductions miscarrying because they were based on image details, like colors and nymph headgear, that are clearly not original, or were not intended to mean what they seem to mean.  That was a terrible waste of time.  Like (as I now see) all the efforts to make sense of the text on f116v.
  
  As I argued in my Voynich Day talk, there is no such thing as "agnostic research" about this book.  Every research effort requires making some assumptions about the events and processes that resulted in what we see today -- an "origin theory".  Thus it is prudent to at least recognize one's "origin theory", and be aware of its unproven status -- and of the implications if it turns out to be incorrect.
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 19-11-2025, 09:32 PM

  I understand that you're very convinced of your opinion. But I don't share it. I have very different ideas, and I'm just as convinced of mine. Therefore, if you continue to comment in this thread, our conversation will be a dialogue of the deaf. Logically, if someone wants to defend a particular theory, they should start a thread and defend it. Others can reject it, raise objections, or agree, but without straying from the topic.
  
  I know that honestly many people here, like you, have their own ideas about the Voynich Manuscript and try to get them to the widest possible audience. I'm fortunate, and it seems that some, if not all, of my ideas are well-received, judging by how popular this thread is. And I'm guided by the same passionate conviction you have regarding your ideas.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Stefan Wirtz_2 > 20-11-2025, 12:19 PM

  Your imaginations are not „well-received“ or agreed in any way, and you are not „fortunate“:
  you are clever enough to push your own thread up again and again on the first positions of this forum since 7 years, so readers stumble upon it regularly.
  But the numbers of major threads are nearly all the same here:
  a number of xx pages generates a 10x higher number of replies, each reply drags some 500 views. 
  Being on top means a lot more views, but it does not mean even one of your theories was right or somehow accepted ever.
  You can find the described relations 1x10x~500 in posts „Voynich being Chinese“, „Voynich… phonetic irish“ and even Kris1212‘ „Voynich decoded“ - this here is not about applause and click counts, and you did not win any contest yet with guesswork about Alphonso X and Panofsky-said-it.
  
  This reply pushes your thread up to No.1 again and is worth 500 clicks - you are welcome.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Jorge_Stolfi > 20-11-2025, 12:43 PM

  (19-11-2025, 09:32 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.many people here, like you, have their own ideas about the Voynich Manuscript and try to get them to the widest possible audience

  
  That's not at all like me.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > Yesterday, 08:31 AM

  The Rosettes page is for me a representation of the medieval universe. In previous posts I've already given some reasons why I hold this interpretation. Now I want to highlight a very important detail for this identification. It concerns the small slabs with a dot that we can see on the Rosettes, especially in the central circle.
  
     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
    These slabs most likely allude to the sphere of the fixed stars, the last sphere of the medieval universe, completely closed and studded with stars.
  
     The closest image to this one that I have found is in the astrology treatise attributed to Enrique de Villena, a contemporary work of the Voynich.
  
     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
    This codex contains illustrated pages with astronomical information about eclipses, the movements of the sun, moon, and planets, Earth's latitudes, etc. In the margins of these pages, one can see those dotted slabs that represent the sphere of fixed stars, which serves as a boundary for the other spheres.
  
  I highly recommend consulting this treatise on astrology to see this detail and other very inspiring aspects of the medieval universe. It is digitized and available at the National Library of Spain.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Linda > 3 hours ago

  You have said this before, about 5 years ago. I believe there is a tradition for this design in cartography, and in fact that is how i see it, standing for, as you say, slabs, in my case, of rock. May I ask how you equate slabs to astronomical items? What are they slabs of? I don't think I have seen this particular usage elsewhere, it may well exist, but i don't think anyone discussing it at the time could support the argument. 
  
  JKP said in this thread around that time:
  
  

  Quote:Ideas are important. Ideas can sometimes lead to solutions. But proving an idea is still paramount. Without proof, it's simply an idea, one that might have been considered by many people but which is an empty vessel until you fill it with evidence.

  
  Please provide evidence. Your vessel requires a refill of substance, not a simple restatement of something that didn't seem to go anywhere the first time.
  
  There is a six towered round building in a quarter of the circle. Do we know yet what this is all about? I think I asked then, but I don't recall if anyone knew. Can you explain what you think is going on here? What is this meant to symbolize and what does it stand for in relation to that quarter and with the scale numbers? I tend to doubt it has anything to do with any of the architecture in the rosettes, but i would need to understand the page better to be able to speak directly to that. The drawing style is certainly different.
  
  I found another one with similar architecture, this time it is easier to understand. 
  
  
  
  I assume you are attempting to equate the 6 towered one with the rosettes central towers, i can understand that. But I do not see any interaction between the architecture and the embellishments that would somehow equate them to the superficially similar icons in the rosettes, other than whatever resemblance there is visually with semicircle topped slabs with dots or smaller circles inside.
  
  I went to find an image I could post, (I since added the one above too) in case someone did not look at the example you gave, as it loads very slowly for me. This one is from a page discussing the darkening of the sky at the crucifixion, so don't worry about the attached images, it came that way. I am posting to show the decorative corners with your description of dotted slabs, albeit this one is even more decorative than your presented example.
  
  
  
  And this is what you are equating these embellishments with (except it was page 108 I think)
  
  
  
  Are you saying that Enrique de Villena meant these decorative corners to represent the sphere of fixed stars?  Has this been mentioned by anyone else before you? Evidence, please.
  
  I still think it is fanciful embellishment, as it is also used in the decorative initial letter as well. Filling in the void, not with stars, but with intricate doodles. In this one he adds another icon, kind of a floral x. What would these be in an astrological sense? Perhaps a heavenly boundary. Or, again, decoration. 
  
  Here is some evidence that it is common to fill the corners of circular astrological drawings with random designs.
  
  
  
  I agree Enrique's treatise on Astrology is scientific looking and beautiful, although i couldn't get more than a few glipses due to the pages taking forever to load on my device. However I did read that he had a reputation as a necromancer and that another of his works was A Treatise on the Evil Eye. I wonder if this colours his decorations in another light. Some of them seem to have diamonds and spades, diamonds could be argued as stars but with the spades it seems more like designs on the backs of cards. Also although I see the shapes and the dots, (which are a bit different too), they are also laid out quite differently from those in the vms, it appears to be from a different universe if we are comparing them against each other as such, even if we take them for what you say they are.
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