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+--- Thread: Idea-just spitballin' (/thread-1072.html)
Idea-just spitballin' - Anonymous - 12-11-2016
Hello everyone. I'm was thinking what if the person who wrote the VM wrote it whilst looking in a mirror? Has anyone here looked into this line of thought? When I write in my journal, I sometimes like to write backwards and I know this way of hiding information is used by various people through out history- a very simple way of hiding information. So, perhaps he created a code using various Romani dialects and then transcribed the using a mirror to write them backwards, or upside down, or maybe both?
RE: Idea-just spitballin' - -JKP- - 12-11-2016
(12-11-2016, 06:11 AM)Anonymous Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello everyone. I'm was thinking what if the person who wrote the VM wrote it whilst looking in a mirror? Has anyone here looked into this line of thought? When I write in my journal, I sometimes like to write backwards and I know this way of hiding information is used by various people through out history- a very simple way of hiding information. So, perhaps he created a code using various Romani dialects and then transcribed the using a mirror to write them backwards, or upside down, or maybe both?
Writing backwards doesn't hide anything. Many people read backwards as easily as they read forwards. Typesetters can all read backwards. You don't need a mirror to write backwards, many can write backwards also.
Some cultures wrote in both directions with no preference for one way or the other, so obviously they can read backwards. Some cultures even developed writing conventions with a "plough" formation (like mowing a lawn one way and then the other), so clearly direction made no difference to them either.
Might the VMS author have written backwards? Sure. But I'm certain many people have looked at it in both directions (including me).
RE: Idea-just spitballin' - Anonymous - 12-11-2016
(12-11-2016, 06:35 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thank you for your input(12-11-2016, 06:11 AM)Anonymous Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello everyone. I'm was thinking what if the person who wrote the VM wrote it whilst looking in a mirror? Has anyone here looked into this line of thought? When I write in my journal, I sometimes like to write backwards and I know this way of hiding information is used by various people through out history- a very simple way of hiding information. So, perhaps he created a code using various Romani dialects and then transcribed the using a mirror to write them backwards, or upside down, or maybe both?
Writing backwards doesn't hide anything. Many people read backwards as easily as they read forwards. Typesetters can all read backwards. You don't need a mirror to write backwards, many can write backwards also.
Some cultures wrote in both directions with no preference for one way or the other, so obviously they can read backwards. Some cultures even developed writing conventions with a "plough" formation (like mowing a lawn one way and then the other), so clearly direction made no difference to them either.
Might the VMS author have written backwards? Sure. But I'm certain many people have looked at it in both directions (including me).
I haven't heard of anyone attempting this so I thought I'd just ask. The people I hang around with aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed and it takes them a very long time to read backwards and some of them do use mirrors to speed up the process. Their minds just don't seem to be wired to recognize backwards letters.
RE: Idea-just spitballin' - -JKP- - 12-11-2016
I haven't done any research on this, but it might be like handedness—some are right-handed, some left-handed and some are ambidextrous.
I suspect reading forwards and backwards is more common than being ambidextrous (I've only met a couple of truly ambidextrous people but I've met many who can read in both directions), but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a genetic component.
Many children will write in both directions until they are taught that you are "supposed" to write in a particular direction.
RE: Idea-just spitballin' - davidjackson - 12-11-2016
We can see the scribe's wrote LTR because of the way the ink tails off on the glyphs.
And so we know the scribe's were right handed - no sign of wet ink being brushed by their cuffs.
RE: Idea-just spitballin' - -JKP- - 12-11-2016
(12-11-2016, 07:44 AM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We can see the scribe's wrote LTR because of the way the ink tails off on the glyphs.
And so we know the scribe's were right handed - no sign of wet ink being brushed by their cuffs.
Even if it's written left-to-right, it's still possible that it's meant to be read right-to-left. Ciphers are sometimes written in reverse order and text can be copied in reverse order.
But...
I've looked at it in both directions from the time I first saw it and I don't see any evidence that definitely points to it being right-to-left instead of left-to-right. In fact, there are things that happen on the left of the drawings and on the left of the text that suggest it was probably meant to be read left-to-right but... I would hate to commit to that idea for sure because it hasn't been unraveled yet. Even the possibility of anagrams still exists (not the random kind, the structured kind).
RE: Idea-just spitballin' - Anton - 12-11-2016
Quote:And so we know the scribe's were right handed - no sign of wet ink being brushed by their cuffs.
I have been doubting the point that the scribe was right handed. Speaking in terms of the curve-line system, the lines are always at an angle counter-clockwise. That would be natural for a left-handed person, but what does that mean for a right-handed one? Possibly, alignment to some diagonal macro-grid? Why diagonal?
As for the mirror, that was one of the first things I tried. I'm sure that's true for almost any Voynich reader
RE: Idea-just spitballin' - -JKP- - 12-11-2016
(12-11-2016, 01:25 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:And so we know the scribe's were right handed - no sign of wet ink being brushed by their cuffs.
I have been doubting the point that the scribe was right handed. Speaking in terms of the curve-line system, the lines are always at an angle counter-clockwise. That would be natural for a left-handed person, but what does that mean for a right-handed one? Possibly, alignment to some diagonal macro-grid? Why diagonal?
...
There might be a few reasons for that. Some people hold their pens very differently. Remember grade school? Some kids held pens in very strange ways and continued to do so as adults. Another reason could be that maybe the writer learned to write right-to-left (Hebrew, Arabic) and then adapted to writing left-to-right (perhaps at a young age).
Another reason could be a left-hander who was taught/forced/coerced into writing with their right hand. My grandma's generation used to do that, force left-handed kids to write with their right hands (not a good idea to mess with a person's brain-wiring, but they did it). After a few years they get used to it but judging by what some of their generation said about it, it never felt completely natural.
And then there's someone like da Vinci. He was a left-hander who wrote right-to-left most of the time, because that was natural for him (and prevented smudging of ink), but also wrote left-to-right when it was for other people to read, but not quite as elegantly (which maybe meant it wasn't quite as comfortable for his hand). It would be interesting to study which of the leftie shapes he retained in his writing (the slant, etc.) when writing right-to-left.