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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 40 online users. » 3 Member(s) | 34 Guest(s) Bing, Google, Yandex, Searcher, zamolxe, zodiac_killer Latest Threads Alain Touwaide - Villa Mo... Forum: News Last Post: Aga Tentakulus 1 hour ago » Replies: 30 » Views: 981 [Trinity] General discuss... Forum: Codicology and Paleography Last Post: MarcoP 1 hour ago » Replies: 67 » Views: 5,914 Common vocabulary between... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Koen G 10 hours ago » Replies: 33 » Views: 1,371 A new Theory about Voynic... Forum: News Last Post: Ahmet Barış Kestel Yesterday, 10:29 AM » Replies: 48 » Views: 2,688 Natural semantic metalang... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: RenegadeHealer 18-10-2019, 05:56 PM » Replies: 0 » Views: 58 Frankfurt Book Fair 2019 Forum: News Last Post: Helmut Winkler 18-10-2019, 10:37 AM » Replies: 5 » Views: 92 Voynich Stars Forum: Imagery Last Post: -JKP- 17-10-2019, 11:34 PM » Replies: 34 » Views: 2,876 A Hidden Markov Model for... Forum: News Last Post: davidjackson 17-10-2019, 08:18 PM » Replies: 5 » Views: 177 Medieval sirens and merma... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Searcher 17-10-2019, 04:26 PM » Replies: 40 » Views: 680 Course in Cologne focusin... Forum: News Last Post: Torsten 16-10-2019, 01:27 PM » Replies: 17 » Views: 809

Natural semantic metalanguage Posted by: RenegadeHealer - 18-10-2019, 05:56 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - No Replies I've been spending some time reading through the blogs of -JKP- and Emma May Smith for the past few days, trying to get a deeper sense for how Voynichese is constructed, and what patterns it contains. These two researchers do an excellent job teaching this, and their blogs should be required reading for any aspiring Voynich theorist, right up there with classics like Currier and D'Imperio. As much as I like to let my imagination wander, I agree with both of these bloggers that a solid foundation of what is there must form the foundation of any good speculation on what might be there. I am also now firmly convinced that the writing system is synthetic, and the construction of vords and lines of text are deliberate. In my wanderings on Wikipedia, I came across the theory of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and am about to order myself a copy of Wierzbicka and Goddard's seminal work on this theory. Basically it proposes that all natural languages, and quite possibly all human systems of symbolic communication, can be expressed as combinations of approximately 65 basic concepts that are fundamental to the human experience, and cannot be simplified any further. This was a little further down a wiki-hole that started for me with the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., a short list of lexical items that would have been known to all prehistoric humans, and show a high resistance to sound changes or replacement by borrowing, over time. The point being, if the VMS contains a natural language, a constructed language, or any sort of symbolic encoding of human communication, there is a short list of concepts that must appear in the VMS, and must have a Voynichese way of being written. Defining this list would be the first challenge. Later, I'm envisioning finding a way to use, for example, -JKP-'s differential distribution of Janus pairs and Emma's rules about syllable construction, along with clues from the imagery, to try to identify which units of writing likely correlate with which units of meaning. But I don't want to be that newbie who reinvents the wheel, and ignores good research that's already been done in this direction. Can anyone point me in the direction of any VMS researcher who has already worked on something similar?   Frankfurt Book Fair 2019 Posted by: ReneZ - 18-10-2019, 05:04 AM - Forum: News - Replies (5) I was able to pay a short visit to the 2019 book fair in Frankfurt, meeting primarily with the people from Siloé in the area of art books:   stand.jpg (Size: 105.62 KB / Downloads: 84) There were many firms presenting their facsimiles. If you are interested in expensive bindings, these are available:   binding.jpg (Size: 168.74 KB / Downloads: 84) I noted this tiny facsimile, of which I wonder if it is one of the two copies of the Pseudo-Apuleius herbal in Florence.   FLorence.jpg (Size: 82.26 KB / Downloads: 84) There was also this large calendar:   hours.jpg (Size: 129.91 KB / Downloads: 84) With a conspicuous lobster:   lobster.jpg (Size: 59.73 KB / Downloads: 83)   A Hidden Markov Model for the Linguistic Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript Posted by: Torsten - 16-10-2019, 01:22 PM - Forum: News - Replies (5) New paper about the VMS: "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view." The paper by Luis Acedo is available You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..  The author concludes: Quote:The most interesting results are, however, those obtained with the observation probability matrix, which clearly separate two kinds of characters to be associated with vowel and consonant phonemes ... On the other hand, this correspondence is not as strong as in the case of the English text of Section 3.1 because there are symbols with noticeable probability that appear in both figures (in particular, the EVA symbols 'e', 'i', 's' and 'y').   Voynich an AI Posted by: Robot59 - 13-10-2019, 04:46 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (16) Hello Folks, This is my first post! The Voynich MS is still not translated after so many years.  Maybe human can't resolve this enigma. Seeing the performances of the robot Sophia (creepy)  and other AI designs which comes all together in the cloud and learn from each other, I think it's possible in the near future with AI. What do you think about this option?   Medieval sirens and mermaids Posted by: R. Sale - 12-10-2019, 10:00 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (40) In the cosmic comparison of VMs f68v3 with BNF Fr. 565 fol 23, the illustration of Harley 334 fol 29 has also been included. Does the comparison of the siren /mermaid in the lower part of VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. form a second link with the illustration from Harley 334 fol 57? There has been discussion of the VMs mermaid before, but I don't see where the Harley 334 image was included. If not, is there a better match to the VMs illustration?   fRos word Posted by: RobGea - 11-10-2019, 03:28 PM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (4) At the very top left of fRos there is a word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Is it voynichese or marginalia ? It looks like 'PaRib Fox' (english text style) but the glyphs dont seem very voynichey. also very specualtively above the 'F' there are 3 very faint symbols.   fros-marg_2-RGB.png (Size: 27.13 KB / Downloads: 98)   Was Voynichese meant to be pronounced? Posted by: Stephen Carlson - 10-10-2019, 11:05 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (38) I'm wondering if Voynichese was meant to be pronounced or pronounceable. If it was, it would fit an unknown-language or glossolalia hypothesis, but not so much a ciphertext hypothesis. The answer seems neutral on a hoax hypothesis. In favor, the glyphs really do look like an alphabet (some glyphs even present in Latin MSS), the "vords" seem to have an onset-nucleus-coda structure (which is pronounceable), and the EVA representation is pronounceable. Against, no phonetic values are known, the script has layout effects (e.g., first character of lines, first lines of paragraphs, etc.), and many vords seem differ by only a stroke or two and may have been generated by purely graphic means (see Timm & Schinner).   Siege Imagery with VMS Similarities... Posted by: -JKP- - 10-10-2019, 05:52 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (3) The VMS rosettes folio doesn't feel like siege imagery to me, but there are some iconographical elements in siege drawings that relate to the way other things were drawn in the 14th and 15th centuries, so I thought it might be interesting to look at them. I didn't want Marco's discussion of tents to go off-topic, so I thought it might be a good idea to start a separate thread for the broader topic of siege imagery. To start off... This is the 7th century siege of Constantinople by the Sassanids/Ava/Slavic forces (fresco in Modovita Monastery) which was painted in 1537. What it has in common with the VMS rosettes folio is the big round waves around one edge of the city walls (similar to the "big wave" shapes in the VMS rotum top-right) and high mountain escarpments with a castle on a separate "bump" nearby: Image credit Man vyi, Wikipedia If you look closely, you will also see long pipes that look like cannons pointing out at the ship in the water. Pipes were used to shoot fire at least before the 12th century. ----------- The siege of Chandax (Biblioteca Nacional de España). Note the tents, arches, and the "bumpy texture" for the helmets (this was a common way to depict an army wearing helmets): .   Wikipedia from the History of John Skylitzes ---------- Saddleback portal gate and tents showing the tie-downs (maybe belongs on the tent thread, but I thought it was a good example of a saddleback portal): Siege of Hennebont (1342, depicted in the 15th century), Jean Froissart, BNF via Wikipedia ---------- Men dressed as mounds. Not quite like the mounds on the rosette folio (they have holes in the top), but I thought I'd post them, for the record, along with another saddleback portal gate: Göttingen Codex philos 63 (15th century)   The Sticks and Bumps on the rosettes folio Posted by: -JKP- - 10-10-2019, 09:19 AM - Forum: Imagery - No Replies I've suggested some of the bumpy things on the rosettes folio could be volcanoes, mud spouts, steam vents, and other geological structures. But some of them look man-made rather than natural... And maybe some of the "natural" looking ones are manmade. For example... the production of gunpowder used to be done in small ceramic kegs, hung from the ceiling, but you need charcoal, and for centuries, charcoal for various purposes has been burned under mounds, some of which are tiered layers. Maybe some of those strange steaming mounds on the rosettes folio are charcoal mounds: .    Often the mound was created with logs and sticks (the part that burns), with pats of mud blobbed onto the sticks. These look quite a bit like the vented blobby small mounds on the rosettes folio. Here is a woodcut of charcoal workers: Pounding the powder used to be done by rows of men, but they eventually engineered a wheel to pound the powder. ----------- Also, there are a lot of skinny vertical "sticks" around one of the rota that look to me like palisades around a town (or like spears stuck in the ground, all pointing up) next to a lot of rounded textures:   Palisades.png (Size: 72.88 KB / Downloads: 49) At first I thought they might be a palisade: But here's another thought... bumps and spears in a different context (the group on the left, with helmets and spears, shields and spears can look like that, as well):    Pipes, wheels, bumps, vertical-pointing sticks...   The "spokes" on the rosettes folio Posted by: -JKP- - 10-10-2019, 08:23 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (3) There are several spoke-like patterns on the rosettes folio. They could be domes, tents, water wheels (like a mill wheel), fountain cisterns, or any number of things. A couple of them remind me of mill wheels, like this early medieval drawing (note the way the pipe and the water are drawn): Wikipedia British Library, The Lutrell Psalter There are also water-lifting wheels for wells and for irrigation (also to move water out of mining sites). For comparison to the western drawing, here is a Persian wheel: Here's a further idea for the spoke wheels... some kind of crank mechanism... there were many different kinds of wheel-cranks in the Middle Ages and some were quite large (note that there are Ghibelline merlons): Next Last