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Finding the icons
Forum: Voynich Talk
Last Post: R. Sale
4 hours ago
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"minims" and "word ending...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: pfeaster
5 hours ago
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Cheshire at it again: "Pa...
Forum: News
Last Post: pfeaster
9 hours ago
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Can VM be written in vowe...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: farmerjohn
23-01-2022, 10:52 PM
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No text, but a visual cod...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: Antonio García Jiménez
23-01-2022, 09:41 PM
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Biocodicology - A Deeper ...
Forum: Physical material
Last Post: MichelleL11
23-01-2022, 06:14 PM
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sh_ and ch_ compose the s...
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: cvetkakocj@rogers.com
23-01-2022, 03:11 AM
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Top right f1r
Forum: Analysis of the text
Last Post: LisaFaginDavis
22-01-2022, 05:58 PM
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Scribes of the Voynich Ma...
Forum: News
Last Post: ddskbnbn
21-01-2022, 01:07 PM
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Voynich Reconsidered
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Last Post: dfs346
16-01-2022, 05:56 PM
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| Finding the icons |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 4 hours ago - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Finding the icons is problematic in the VMs. Identifying the nature of icons is difficult. Defined as an image, figure, representation or picture. This definition lacks the essential *star* quality that makes an icon an icon.
Though it may not be easy to find icons, it is possible to find things that were iconic relevant to the C-14 dates. Where something iconic is something that goes without saying. Certain understandings and interpretations that need no explanation because they were well known at the time VMs creation. And even though quite famous at the time, have gotten lost in the cascade of historical events.
The VMs cosmos is iconic. The understanding goes without saying, but the interpretation is a long and complex review of medieval representations. concluding with a focus of BNF Fr. 565 and Harley 334.
The Golden Fleece was certainly iconic. Does it occur, as has been suggested, in the VMs? Not just once, but twice? Discovered despite ambiguous representation. Confirmed by the existence of dual representation, pairing. And confirmed by association with other historical icons, as represented in the illustrations, either Melusine or the Agnus Dei icon. One icon confirms the other.
Heraldry is iconic. Red hats and blue stripes were iconic. The cardinal's red galero was traditional. The armorial insignia was historical. The combination was a unique historical event.
Swallowtail merlons are iconic.
The ring and the cross were iconic to Saint Colette of Corbie. The double rainbow would have been iconic for La Sainte Hostie de Dijon. There were crowds in the street to validate the popular significance of such icons.
So, the icons exist in the VMs illustrations, it's up to the investigator to find them.
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| Historic cipher mapping |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 07-01-2022, 08:14 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (28)
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The idea would be to create a database and mapping for early ciphers, similar to the mapping of merlons.
Simple entries of date, location and cipher methodology would be sufficient, with substitution (simple vs. complex) most common. But there is also a potential of alternate methods being used, along with when and where that may have been - within relevant parameters.
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| Spatial Spread And Conditional Character Entropy Reduction |
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Posted by: Anton - 03-01-2022, 05:17 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (13)
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Occasionally I got some interesting ideas before the New Year and I took time to systematize them to a certain extent in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
There's a reasonable statement that if something does not behave like a flow of language then perhaps it is not a flow of language. Now, there's a question of how exactly to read it. Those who explore the "hoax" hypothesis judge that Voynichese is not a flow of language. I think that maybe Voynichese is not a flow of language instead.
I have some further ideas which it would be exciting to develop, but in terms of blog posting I wanted to pause at some point, lest it takes months or years.
Comments and suggestions most welcome.
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Is nymphs gender relevant? |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 30-12-2021, 12:49 AM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (4)
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From a question, recently posed in the "Of-Topic" thread, this seems to be very much on a relevant topic.
"What if the nymphs gender doesn’t really matter in the manuscript?"
It has been suggested, whether as 'stella' or 'anima', that the multitude of VMs nymphs are the personifications of stars or spirits of whatever type might be preferred. This is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of some normal text or set of illustrations. That is a part of what the VMs attempts to project. That is not exactly what the VMs is. When the nymphs are examined individually, it opens up a whole host of problems.
In European languages that have common nouns with assigned gender, both star and spirit are generally feminine. Therefore, they are ideologically feminine, and therefore, they are pictorially feminine. If they are what they are expected to be, does their gender really matter? It is only where gender differs from the expectation, that gender should matter.
While there are numerous VMs nymphs that almost match this expectation, there are a notable number of exceptions. Exceptions which clearly contradict the expectations as generally presented. In other words, there are a number of intentionally ambiguous and even potentially masculine figures included in the VMs Zodiac sequence. Why was this variety of nonstandard figures represented by the VMs artist?
Is gender relevant? Perhaps just in specific cases of historical (1), literary (2) and mythological (3) examples. However, there is also the problem of the dark ink that has frequently been applied to the VMs nymphs to emphasize their breasts. This would indicate that the identification of gender was important. But, to what purpose? Is it a distraction or an attraction? Are the nude, female nymphs of the VMs intended to disguise the 'others' hidden in their midst? Or are they enhanced to promote the investigation and discovery of hidden characters otherwise known to be relevant to European, medieval society.
(1) The Fieschi popes on VMs White Aries
(2) Lady Bertilak on VMs White Aries (Wife of the Green Knight)
(3) Castor and Pollux on VMs Gemini
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| The chicken and the ink |
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Posted by: bi3mw - 26-12-2021, 10:05 PM - Forum: Physical material
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In a thread about Biocodicology, the following idea occurred to me:
The Mc Crone Institute studied the ink in the VMS in 2009. It was found that Glair (eggwhite) was used for clear or the color white. It was used in the headdress of bather on folio 78r ( clear, not white ) and a face on folio 70v ( see table in the report ). Thus, inks containing protein were used which are hardly contaminated, i.e. they were only mixed with calcium carbonate but not processed in any other way (in contrast to the parchment).
Samples of these inks could help determine the origin of the chicken and thus the ink itself if the ovalbumin (OVA) is sufficient to determine the exact species ( that would be the first and most important question, does it differ from sub species to sub species ?). The protein sequence of chicken ovalbumin was fully elucidated in 1981 [2].
The Red junglefowl ( gallus gallus ) is the ancestor of all domestic chickens existing today ( Wikipedia ). The variations in late medieval times were locally different. The DNA of chicken bones from archaeological excavations could be used for comparison. These are found worldwide ( for example also in my neighboring town ) in large numbers.
From the 15th century onwards breeding of chickens has been demonstrably started, which facilitates the differentiation according to local sites.
Quote:Benecke (1994: 370-372)[1] proves that chickens definitely became larger as well as more different in shape and color from the late Middle Ages on. From about the 15th century, there are first indications of incipient breeding. In the Middle Ages, the animals can be divided according to the construction of the skeleton into small chickens similar to today's bantams and heavier chickens such as Leghorn or Italian. Chicken breeds or different types of chickens that emerged in the late Middle Ages are the origin of some breeds still living today ....
[1] Benecke, N. Der Mensch und seine Haustiere, Theiss, 1994
[2] A. D. Nisbet, R. H. Saundry u. a.: The complete amino-acid sequence of hen ovalbumin. In: European Journal of Biochemistry / FEBS. Band 115, Nummer 2, April 1981, S. 335–345, doi:10.1111/j.1432-1033.1981.tb05243.x (free Fulltext). PMID 7016535.
My question now is whether this idea is plausible and considered feasible or ( justified ) why not.
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| Gemini nymphs after 6 |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 24-12-2021, 08:09 PM - Forum: Imagery
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VMs Gemini has some interesting 'nymphs' between 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock in the outer ring. Several of these characters are clothed and ostensibly male. Not the more typical VMs nymph. Also, for some, the style of clothing appears interesting, as it looks like a tunic.
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The term 'tunic' turns up in a number of ninja threads that seem to be concerned with the primary male characters of Gemini and Sagittarius inside the respective medallions. I haven't found where these secondary characters have been brought into the discussion. Any guidance appreciated.
Furthermore, in relation to recent discussions, there is the possibility that these characters fit into the myth of Castor and Pollux, leading up to their catasterism. Perhaps this has been considered previously?
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| Siderial connections: masculine |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 20-12-2021, 08:20 PM - Forum: Astronomy
- Replies (13)
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The general process is called catasterism. It is the process of conversion of a mythical person (animal or object) into something that is seen in the stars <of the night sky>, such as a constellation or star.
This is a search request specifically for stars that can be shown to be masculine. Preferably in a medieval European, historical and traditional context.
Examples so far: Arcturus, Castor and Pollux
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| Plant's gender pronouns |
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Posted by: Ranceps - 18-12-2021, 09:00 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (2)
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If we are to discuss each plant in the "herbal" section of the MS, did anybody tried to compare the gender pronouns of the "known plants". I mean the whole text, if it contains some similarities between the "known plant" from another page. It's normal that we speak about the plant using gender as pronouns.
Maybe we can find something in the vords that's similar to other pages and we can use that to find the gender pronouns in other texts. That's something I wondered for a long time... like I wondered about the phrase from old Herbals, the plants are often introduces as "The plant name is X" (in latin: Nomen istius herbe (like in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Of course, the plants there are hardly recognizable from the picture, but the text helps a lot to understand what plant we are talking about...).
Did anybody tried to find a connection between the gender pronouns or that phrase being in most of the "herbal section"?
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![[Image: Sn-mek-obrazovky-2022-01-10-v-15-52-29.png]](https://i.ibb.co/m4SX0pK/Sn-mek-obrazovky-2022-01-10-v-15-52-29.png)