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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 1021 online users. » 10 Member(s) | 1007 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Google, dexdex, DONJCH, gimio, Grove, Jorge_Stolfi, Ryszard Latest Threads Repetition of words Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Grove 7 minutes ago » Replies: 59 » Views: 11,553 My pet theory Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: JustAnotherTheory 39 minutes ago » Replies: 0 » Views: 36 Trying to identify the in... Forum: Physical material Last Post: kckluge 48 minutes ago » Replies: 0 » Views: 38 Huth's reading of f116v: ... Forum: Marginalia Last Post: Bernd 59 minutes ago » Replies: 9 » Views: 216 Scoring artefact for 45% ... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: chrisj 1 hour ago » Replies: 4 » Views: 285 No text, but a visual cod... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Antonio García Jiménez 1 hour ago » Replies: 1,691 » Views: 1,038,284 Water, earth and air Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: R. Sale 6 hours ago » Replies: 60 » Views: 11,772 The claimed Voynich page Forum: Imagery Last Post: Fabrizio Salani Yesterday, 11:54 PM » Replies: 87 » Views: 13,684 The Book Switch Theory Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: ReneZ Yesterday, 11:42 PM » Replies: 136 » Views: 7,009 Voynich Zoom CFP Forum: News Last Post: proto57 Yesterday, 07:58 PM » Replies: 39 » Views: 3,363

Parallels for dress: Gemini MALE Posted by: Koen G - 21-09-2018, 10:27 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (22) To get a better picture of what we're dealing with, it would be interesting if we could find out the time and place(s) where we can expect the type of dress worn by the Gemini to emerge. Since this is only about the dress, I decided to make a separate thread for man and woman. It doesn't matter who is wearing it: man with woman, man on horse, man in battle... We're interested in the type of dress by itself. This approach is valid because, as other members on the forum have pointed out, dress evolves separately from other image factors, especially during medieval times. Now those who have studied medieval wardrobe to some extent can probably say something like "these clothes are typical for much of the 14th-15th century all over Europe", but this broad statement obviously won't help us much. We'll have to dig into the details. What was important enough to include in the drawing? Are there perhaps minor variations in style that could point us to a more specific region or time? With subjects like these it is difficult to exclude personal impression, so just to help us sift through the available materia I propose to make use of a set of filters wich will allow us to attach a "score" to each individual piece of clothing. It is not the intention to find an image with a 100% score. If our best matches turn out to be only around 50%, that's perfectly fine. Each medieval drawing is unique, so finding a 100% match is not required. We're looking for tendencies. I propose the following checks for the male clothing, but these should be discussed beforehand. I have doubted to include color, but then decided that it should be included since it might be part of regional or temporal preference, for all we know. And it's only one factor of many.   gemiman.jpg (Size: 53.2 KB / Downloads: 350) Houppelande:  Belted Length: between knees and ankles (?) Lobed bottom (wavy) Vertical lines in body (folds, plaits...) Neck collar Sleeve collars Sleeves till wrist Sleeves fitting/narrow at wrist No overcoat Green Hat: Wider than head Shaped like flat cylinder Nothing on top Nothing hanging down Green Boots: Separate from hose Visible laces About ankle height or a bit higher Tip relatively rounded Same color as hose This gives 10,5,5 points to check individual pieces of clothing and 20 for an entire ensemble. It's likely that I got some things wrong or missed something important, so the list should be discussed before starting (although it can always be adjusted afterwards if necessary).   Dis ist vonden Louwen Posted by: Koen G - 15-09-2018, 10:35 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (14)   0.jpg (Size: 100.95 KB / Downloads: 221)   medieval references to roundels Posted by: Davidsch - 12-09-2018, 01:34 PM - Forum: Astrology & Astronomy - Replies (2) Following some interesting stuff mentioned in relation to Diebold Lauber ,  I just randomly browsed  the Pal Lat 1370 and was wondering how the scribe makes a reference in the text towards the roundels? Since there is only a small page number, on the right top,  I assume that was written later. take for example  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. If he writes something about the the zodiacs and calculations in relation to the tables and astrological explanation, how would the scribe make a reference to the appropriate drawing? (extra image: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) added: a fun fact in Hongarian one would write for Page 53 -> 53 oldal   [split] Alternatives for "sunflower" ID Posted by: Koen G - 11-09-2018, 04:57 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (22) Armadillo is easily dismissed with scales instead of bands. Do we have an alternate ID for their sunflower?   Gemini from wedding imagery Posted by: Koen G - 02-09-2018, 07:28 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (19) I summarized my thoughts and findings about this matter in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but it's easier to discuss on the forum. In the blog I argue that the VM Gemini find their closest parallels in images of medieval weddings/betrothals.  The two best images I found so far are the following: An image from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. "Hartlieb, Johannes: Das buoch Ouidy von der liebe zu erwerben. auch die liebe zeuerschmehen", Augsburg, 1482. It is the best parallel for the pose and reveals that we are looking at two simultaneous wedding rituals: the man clasps the woman's hand and at the same time puts a ring on her free hand, resulting in crossed arms. The second is from a manuscript from Diebold Lauber's studio. It’s an illustration of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. work Wilhelm von Orlens. I will eat a turban if the man in this image is not somehow related to the VM Gemini. Now I don't know yet where to look next. There are tons of manuscripts which use the same type of imagery, but it will take time and effort to find them and go through them. Any ideas?   An earlier Marci? Posted by: -JKP- - 31-08-2018, 11:37 PM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (10) René, is there any information on earlier members of Iohannes Marci's family (father, grandfather, uncles)? There is a notation top-right (possibly an ex libris) at the end of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: A[nn]o 1561 Ad 18 octobre in ?p g? hispurg (hisburg)  (might the third character be c-tail?) R I D G? (N D G?) Georgius Marcius Handwritten manuscripts were on the wane in the 16th century, with mass-produced books quickly replacing them, so they tended to stay in the small circles of people who could afford them. The CLM 1111 is from the Alsace, but ended up in the Munich library, so may have moved around. I thought you might like to take a look in case there's a possible connection Between George Marci and Iohannes Marcus Marci. ----------------- Also, on a paleographical note... Note the looong serif on the "i" on the second and fourth lines. This is an uncommon way to write "i" (I have to really search to find examples) and matches the "i" in "chiton" "imiltos" "nim" and (to some extent) "mich" on 116v. Also, the small looped "n" is also uncommon and close to the "n" in "nim". Note also the 3rd character in the 2nd row. It's probably not "r" (r wasn't written this way unless it had a tail and this is not a tail), it's probably an open-top "p" (although I'm not completely sure) and might be the same long-serif open-top "p" that is above "ven mus mel". It's not the same handwriting as the 116v marginalia, and one can see the evolution from Gothic to Humanist text (the ascender loops are gone, as gradually occurred in the 16th century), but there are enough similarities that MAYBE George Marci learned to write in the same region as the 116v marginalia writer.   Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° Posted by: Koen G - 30-08-2018, 10:03 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (26) During the last hour or so I have grown convinced that certain images from the Zodiac section have been borrowed from one or more popular books on courtly love, correct nobility behavior and so on. I shared my latest finds in other threads, and here's another one. I'm actually really tired and I should go to bed, but I just need to post one more thing You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a 2nd half 15thC version of the only preserved work by Italian poet You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. He wrote it in the early 13th century in Middle High German; "The text is aimed at young nobles lecturing on courtesy, courtly love (minne), and chivalry, based on contemporary scholastic works on ethics, philosophy, and the liberal arts. The adoption of (Bavarian) Middle High German by a non-native speaker is a valuable contemporary source for linguistic researchers." I found You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in particular interesting in this MS.   Naamloos-4.jpg (Size: 136.57 KB / Downloads: 391) There's also an unusual circle on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (way to transfer head lice).   Naamloos-5.jpg (Size: 111.62 KB / Downloads: 386)   f81r-f81v text layout - damaged page? Posted by: Koen G - 22-08-2018, 04:29 PM - Forum: Physical material - Replies (8) I noticed You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a rather unusual layout in that the text does not run on till the right margin, making it look like some kind of poem. Might this be because the parchment in this area was found unsuitable as a writing surface? There does appear to be some damage (edge of skin?) and the reverse You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. also shows a slight bend in the text margin at this location, though not nearly as much. The images don't seem to care.   damage.jpg (Size: 136.7 KB / Downloads: 361)   f66v character column Posted by: Koen G - 18-08-2018, 05:41 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (6) There's a lot going on on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . The bottom marginalia with the lying figure (mus del). A column of words seemingly added in the margin. But in between these words and the main text there's another row of what looks like single glyphs. I've cut the ribbon for easier viewing:   Naamloos-5.jpg (Size: 70.35 KB / Downloads: 159) This row includes mostly single EVA glyphs, but also two [sh] and an [air] cluster. Now for the sake of argument, let's assume two things (which are definitely not certain): 1) This was written by someone "in the know", not some would-be decipherer. 2) They are indeed considered single glyphs ...then this means we should alter the input of our statistical experiments. Things like air and sh should be transcribed as single characters. At least that would be the case if those two conditions were certainly met. Has this ever been studied?   [Essentials] Counts discussion Posted by: Koen G - 18-08-2018, 02:49 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (18) I just made a new thread to gather all counts of things: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Here any additions can be suggested. Count VViews, please make abundant use of your editing rights here, I must have forgotten quite a bit of things we've counted before. Did we ever reach a definite count of the total number of human figures? First Previous Next Last