Emma May Smith > 25-05-2019, 07:38 PM
Torsten > 25-05-2019, 07:53 PM
(25-05-2019, 07:38 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hmm, reading the GitHub page I see that your "self-citation text generator" has a number of problems:I can't say that the text really looks like the Voynich text.
- It generates words which don't exist.
- Over-generates rare words.
- Allow words which typically occur at the start of the line to appear anywhere.
- Certain bigrams have the wrong frequencies: lt (24 tokens) but lk (36 tokens), or oa (44 tokens) but ya (233 tokens!)
Emma May Smith > 25-05-2019, 08:18 PM
(25-05-2019, 07:53 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(25-05-2019, 07:38 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hmm, reading the GitHub page I see that your "self-citation text generator" has a number of problems:I can't say that the text really looks like the Voynich text.
- It generates words which don't exist.
- Over-generates rare words.
- Allow words which typically occur at the start of the line to appear anywhere.
- Certain bigrams have the wrong frequencies: lt (24 tokens) but lk (36 tokens), or oa (44 tokens) but ya (233 tokens!)
Please read the paper before arguing against something not said there.
Emma May Smith > 25-05-2019, 08:54 PM
Torsten > 25-05-2019, 10:03 PM
(25-05-2019, 08:54 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems like the language network graphs are also wonky. Vietnamese look particularly bad, but it's easier to point out the errors on the Greek graph:Why is it full of errors like this?
- Multiple single letters are shown as being unconnected to anything despite two letter words which contain that letter existing elsewhere in the graph.
- [ll] occurs at least twice unconnected by any chain.
- [mn] occurs in two different networks.
- [ma] and [mo] are unconnected to either of the two [mn] despite an "edit distance" of one.
- [ot'] is unconnected to [tot'] despite an "edit distance" of one.
- [de] is connected to, um, [de], but not to anything else.
- [o] is connected to both [oe] and [ok], but not [ot].
Emma May Smith > 25-05-2019, 10:20 PM
(25-05-2019, 10:03 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(25-05-2019, 08:54 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems like the language network graphs are also wonky. Vietnamese look particularly bad, but it's easier to point out the errors on the Greek graph:Why is it full of errors like this?
- Multiple single letters are shown as being unconnected to anything despite two letter words which contain that letter existing elsewhere in the graph.
- [ll] occurs at least twice unconnected by any chain.
- [mn] occurs in two different networks.
- [ma] and [mo] are unconnected to either of the two [mn] despite an "edit distance" of one.
- [ot'] is unconnected to [tot'] despite an "edit distance" of one.
- [de] is connected to, um, [de], but not to anything else.
- [o] is connected to both [oe] and [ok], but not [ot].
Please look into the greek You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The text is using stress marks. What you interpret as [de] is in fact written as δὲ and δέ. Anyway, do you really believe that the picture for Greek becomes different if the marks are removed?
Emma May Smith > 25-05-2019, 11:24 PM
Quote:After all, the original VMS was not created by a computer program; the scribe had complete freedom to implement random personal esthetic preferences, spontaneous impulses, or even idiosyncrasies.
Quote:An exact reproduction of all of his/her mental rules is not only most likely impossible, but would still leave the problem of unpredictable random (esthetic) decisions.
Quote:The scope of this work is not the “elemental deconstruction” of the VMS to an exact (and complete) set of rules. We rather demonstrate the feasibility to algorithmically create a text as rich and complex as the VMS, using the strikingly simple self-citation method.
Quote:Of course, it is possible to pinpoint quantitative differences between the real VMS and the used facsimile text (most likely any facsimile text). An example is the quantitative deviation of the <q>-prefix distribution from the original VMS text. However, we are not aware of any statistical property of the VMS that qualitatively contradicts our proposed self-citation algorithm.
Quote:Following Occam’s principle, this theory provides the optimal hypothesis available to explain all facts currently known about the VMS.
Torsten > 26-05-2019, 12:58 AM
(25-05-2019, 11:24 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would have a lot more time and respect for the observations about the similarity and co-occurrence of words in the Voynich text were they not continually served up with the same old theory.
(25-05-2019, 11:24 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.He stuck to the "same rigid word structure" for the majority of the text. Even though the text likely took weeks, and possibly months or even years, to create. The differences between the word structure from beginning to end are not very great. He knew what the word structure was, inside his head.
Emma May Smith > 26-05-2019, 01:29 AM
(26-05-2019, 12:58 AM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(25-05-2019, 11:24 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would have a lot more time and respect for the observations about the similarity and co-occurrence of words in the Voynich text were they not continually served up with the same old theory.
That you can't accept a conclusion is not a valid argument against an observation. The additional materials contain in 1.3 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. You can choose a page and check yourself that indeed tokens with high structural similarity appear preferably in close vicinity.
Torsten Wrote:(25-05-2019, 11:24 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.He stuck to the "same rigid word structure" for the majority of the text. Even though the text likely took weeks, and possibly months or even years, to create. The differences between the word structure from beginning to end are not very great. He knew what the word structure was, inside his head.
The word structure is not as rigid as you suggest. The text is changing from Currier A to Currier B. See also the graph for Words preferred in Currier A and B in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Torsten > 26-05-2019, 02:38 AM
(26-05-2019, 01:29 AM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not arguing against the observations here. I think they're interesting and worth discussing. I'm simply remarking that I wish they could be discussed without the accompanying theory. The observations might well be valid for all researchers and stand the test of time.
(26-05-2019, 01:29 AM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But I'm not going to be the only one who rejects your conclusions.
(26-05-2019, 01:29 AM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There's a deep structure (which I doubt we fully understand) to Voynich words. Your theory does not adequately explain or handle that word structure.