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| Theorems on letters |
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Posted by: Davidsch - 14-10-2017, 01:44 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (13)
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DS Theorem one on 13.10.2017
Any translation attempt that includes the EVA letter [P] or the EVA letter [F] and
converts it directly in any other character or group of characters of another language, is wrong.
That being posed, the first word on f1r can not start with the EVA letter [P] being translated into a Latin P.
DS Theorem two. 14.10.2017: The Eva letter [P] and Eva letter [F] are a signalling letter.
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| First words on folio 1r |
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Posted by: -JKP- - 13-10-2017, 07:54 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (17)
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Patrick Lockerby claims on his blog that the first words in the Voynich Manuscript are these words (which he says are Latin):
Peractum es con itaque …
He reasserted this translation on the ninja forum on this thread:
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On August 2, 2017, I pointed out that his translation is not Latin, that it only looks vaguely like Latin mixed with French:
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Despite the fact that this is clearly demonstrable as not being Latin, Lockerby again asserted on Nick Pelling's blog on October 13th, 2017 that his translation is Latin.
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So he continues to believe and to promote the idea that he has created a Latin translation, even though there is no Latin (not even fractured Latin or note-format Latin) in his translation.
Some history... is this an original idea?
First of all, the idea that the VMS is abbreviated Latin is not unique to Lockerby or Gibbs, not even close. The idea is very very old because the text has many Latin characters mixed with Latin abbreviation symbols. In fact, that's why Vwords like "doary" get translated as "Taurus". It is because the "9" character at the end, in Latin, would be translated as "-us" or "-um". I've posted about these Latin abbreviations many times on my blogs prior to Lockerby's and Gibb's translations and I don't consider the idea to be a "discovery" because there's still no evidence that the text expands into intelligible Latin and Latin abbreviations are common knowledge to those who are familiar with medieval scribal conventions.
Yulia May ("searcher" on our forum) made a very creditable attempt to try to expand the text into Latin long before Lockerby and Gibbs, and May has done the best job I've seen so far (May has knowledge of Latin that both Gibbs and Lockerby do not) and even May discovered that it's difficult to prove if or what might actually be Latin and that the resulting text is unusually, exceedingly repetitious. May has not only done a better job than other claimants, but is also willing to look critically at the translation and say, "Something doesn't quite add up here."
Here is some of the discussion of the translation:
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We have other Latin scholars in the Voynich community who have not been able to turn the VMS into intelligible, substantiatable Latin, so I'm not sure why researchers with little or no knowledge of Latin think they can do something Latin scholars with a strong interest in the VMS AND good knowledge of scribal abbreviations have so far not done.
I have also repeated many times, both here and on my blog, that Latin characters and abbreviations were used in many languages, not just Latin. To assume that Latin abbreviations and ligatures automatically means the underlying language is Latin also shows a lack of knowledge of medieval scribal conventions.
The first language I (and many other Voynich researchers) tried to extract from the VMS text was Latin. Not only was it the lingua franca of the middle ages, but the glyphs are primarily Latin. It's not a new idea, it's an old one that so far hasn't panned out, but I'd still like to discuss the first few words in the Voynich Manuscript since Lockerby today repeated his assertion that the first words can be read as, "Peractum es con itaque …"
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| Cryptologic History panel Oct. 19, 2017 |
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Posted by: -JKP- - 10-10-2017, 04:34 AM - Forum: News
- Replies (44)
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Richard SantaColoma is scheduled for a pre-20th Century cryptology panel at the Symosium on Cryptologic History (Milestones, Memories, and Momentum), Thurs. Oct. 19th at the Kossiakoff Centery, Laurel, Maryland.
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| Simon Wayman "decoded partial analysis" |
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Posted by: -JKP- - 08-10-2017, 06:32 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (4)
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I can't remember anyone posting anything about this video on youtube from Apr. 5, 2016, so I thought I would include a link.
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According to the author, Simon Waymon, it is an extension on ideas presented in Bax's video from Feb. 2014, and focuses on an Arabic interpretation.
Here's a transcript snippet from 15:51 that encapsulates the method (which is taken primarily from the "star charts"):
“Here’s another new star name. This is the most common name on chart 3. These are the first three stars [points out star labels]... The three underneath are some other versions of the name on chart 3. The first star name [reads out pronunciations of similar-looking Vwords]...
Let’s look at the spellings. We can see and “al” followed by vowels. There is a consistent variation within the vowels [points out patterns]... which come and go in their position. The “o” disappears from the beginning of number 5. It appears after the “l” in number 2 and 5. This is typical of the variations I’ve been seeing. We’ve just seen “Tia” [proposed star name] with “o”s on some words.
This is a difficult thing to get across to anyone. I’m showing you all these different words. I’m telling you, they are all variations on the same word.
WaymanStars.png (Size: 147.9 KB / Downloads: 185)
There are two ways to prove that this is true...[see video for explanation]. Please bear in mind that I’ve been looking at these star names, which I think are matches, for long enough to see how they vary. This is the most common word on chart 3, so it must be important, but the name isn't obvious... [description of Star 3, Taurus, and “Pleiades” cluster]"...
After an overview of positions on the star charts, Wayman anagrams the letter groups to produce names that are similar to one another and more readable as natural language.
WaymanStarsAnag.png (Size: 181.46 KB / Downloads: 183)
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This is primarily a substitution + anagrams theory. For example, "o" is translated as "a", EVA-d as "t", gallows-t is ell and a "g" at the end is sometimes ignored and sometimes interpreted as "n", etc. However, when the author of the video notices significant repetition of common letter patterns that don't quite match known star names, these are then anagrammed to produce similar names.
The author does not give explanations as to why these "star names" appear with such great frequency and regularity in other sections that deal with plants, pools, etc.
He proposes that EVA-dar might be TAeR(N) for Taurus and explains the great frequency of "dar" might be because it has more than one meaning.
I thought this video was interesting, because it illustrates a pattern of "discovery" that I have seen in many of the proposed VMS solutions, that of 1) substitution, 2) ignoring certain glyphs that don't quite seem to fit, 3) anagraming (when trying to apply the substitution pattern to larger blocks of text doesn't quite work), and 4) various justifications for why a word should mean one thing in the context of an illustration and something else when it doesn't seem to fit as well with other illustrations or blocks of text (when the system doesn't generalize to other sections).
I'm not trying to present this pattern in a negative light—just reporting something I've noticed. For example, the very fact that so many attempts at decipherment end up with the researcher variously including and ignoring certain glyphs (like EVA-y at the end of tokens) might have some significance (perhaps they are nulls or markers).
So... we have a substitution code based on the assumption that short groups of text next to recognizable illustrations are labels (and probably nouns), which is an extremely common starting point for many VMS theories, followed by a selective process of including or ignoring certain glyphs when they don't seem to fit (also a very common pattern in decipherment attempts), followed by anagraming, which is a prevalent second or third step taken by many researchers once they start to notice the great amount of repetition in the text, followed by an explanation that words of great frequency which have been given an explanation in one part of the manuscript, might have more than one interpretation when they are encountered in another section (or attached to other "syllables").
What differs in Wayman's explanation from a number of other theories is the assertion that similar names are meant to be read as the same. In other words, there might be five or so variant spellings of the same label. If one considers that the VMS is already highly repetitious, if this were true, then the actual content of the manuscript would be dramatically reduced and the entire manuscript would have to be interpreted as being full of star names. Either that, or similar-looking words might have different meanings if they seem out of place.
Unfortunately, these two ideas combined brings one perilously close to a one-way cipher. If different spellings mean the same thing (as suggested for star names), but the same thing means different things (such as common syllables like "dar") then how does one sort out which is which? It becomes subjective interpretation.
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| New proposed solution |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 04-10-2017, 06:39 AM - Forum: News
- Replies (4)
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As I already commented elsewhere, this is an unusually fruitful year for solution attempts.
Here is another one:
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