The Voynich Ninja

I just had a look at the map, and noted that Villalta, in the Udine region and not too far from Gorizia, is not on it.
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In the never-ending quest for visual identity, it might be noted that the armorial insignia shown in the seal in Post #437 has been reversed there. It happens.

Upper right:
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(06-06-2026, 11:57 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I just had a look at the map, and noted that Villalta, in the Udine region and not too far from Gorizia, is not on it.
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The castle was completely destroyed in the 1510s. How old is that manuscript?

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(07-06-2026, 12:57 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the never-ending quest for visual identity, it might be noted that the armorial insignia shown in the seal in Post #437 has been reversed there. It happens.

Upper right:
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This is all I can see.
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(07-06-2026, 01:13 AM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The castle was completely destroyed in the 1510s. How old is that manuscript?

I don't have the book from which I took these photos anymore. I do remember that it was 14xx, probably after 1450.

At least that explains the differences between the drawing and the actual (modern) castle.

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(07-06-2026, 01:13 AM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The castle was completely destroyed in the 1510s. How old is that manuscript?

I don't have the book from which I took these photos anymore. 
I am pretty sure it was this book: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I do remember that the illustration was from 14xx, probably after 1450.

At least that explains the differences between the drawing and the actual (modern) castle.

The period between the fourteenth century and the sixteenth seems to have been exceptionally violent in Northern Italy. Many castles were built or expanded over a few decades, only to be destroyed and rebuilt again in recurring cycles. A lot of the small towns and villages were surrounded by walls as well.

(07-06-2026, 12:01 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The period between the fourteenth century and the sixteenth seems to have been exceptionally violent in Northern Italy. Many castles were built or expanded over a few decades, only to be destroyed and rebuilt again in recurring cycles. A lot of the small towns and villages were surrounded by walls as well.

In the early 15th century, the period to which the vellum of the Voynich manuscript is dated, saw what are termed the 4 Wars in Lombardy. For most of the late 15th century there was peace with the Pact of Lodi.

The early 15th century saw major advances in the use of cryptography by the Italian States. I suspect that the extent of war and conflict over that period drove the advancement in cryptography.

(07-06-2026, 01:02 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(07-06-2026, 12:01 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The period between the fourteenth century and the sixteenth seems to have been exceptionally violent in Northern Italy. Many castles were built or expanded over a few decades, only to be destroyed and rebuilt again in recurring cycles. A lot of the small towns and villages were surrounded by walls as well.

In the early 15th century, the period to which the vellum of the Voynich manuscript is dated, saw what are termed the 4 Wars in Lombardy. For most of the late 15th century there was peace with the Pact of Lodi.

The early 15th century saw major advances in the use of cryptography by the Italian States. I suspect that the extent of war and conflict over that period drove the advancement in cryptography.

From a purely archeological perspective, the late 15th century was still a golden age of castle-building, whereas many castles were converted to civilian residences after the mid-16th century, as if something had convinced poeple that the newly found peace was there to stay.

(07-06-2026, 02:20 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(07-06-2026, 01:02 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(07-06-2026, 12:01 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The period between the fourteenth century and the sixteenth seems to have been exceptionally violent in Northern Italy. Many castles were built or expanded over a few decades, only to be destroyed and rebuilt again in recurring cycles. A lot of the small towns and villages were surrounded by walls as well.

In the early 15th century, the period to which the vellum of the Voynich manuscript is dated, saw what are termed the 4 Wars in Lombardy. For most of the late 15th century there was peace with the Pact of Lodi.

The early 15th century saw major advances in the use of cryptography by the Italian States. I suspect that the extent of war and conflict over that period drove the advancement in cryptography.

From a purely archeological perspective, the late 15th century was still a golden age of castle-building, whereas many castles were converted to civilian residences after the mid-16th century, as if something had convinced poeple that the newly found peace was there to stay.

I would say that quite possibly the late 15th was in some ways a golden age of cryptography as the use of ciphers by Italian City States seems to have become more widespread and standardised. However, with the exception of Leon Battista Alberti, whose work was not widely applied, for most of the late 15th century there was very little innovation in cryptography. The period of innovation, experimentation and advancement was the early 15th century, but this may not have been a period of widespread use.(The evidence that survives is very patchy in this respect, so it is hard to be certain how widespread usage was at specific times and in the case of states like the Republic of Venice, where the surviving evidence is very sparse, how cryptography developed.)

All right, this one's closer to home: 

Matteo Giovanetti, 1344-45. Chapelle Saint-Martial, palais des papes d'Avignon.


Cloister of the Abbaye d'Abondance, before 1430. Master of the Abondance, now thought to be Giacomo Jaquerio, a Piemontese artist.

Giacomo Jaquerio, The Liberation of Saint Peter. Tempera on panel, 1405 - 1410, Museo Civico d'Arte Antica, Torino (panels probably coming from an altarpiece dedicated to Saint Peter in the Abbey of Novalesa)

Franco-Piedmontese painter, Le départ des Trois Doms, circa 1410-1420. Fresco painting. Romans-sur-Isère, Saint-Barnard, chapelle du Saint Sacrement (here, "dom" is an old form of address for monks). Simone Bonicatto accepts the theory that the painter was a member of Giacomo Jaquerio's workshop, and shows how the presence of the Papacy in Avignon attracted artists from the wider region, including the Piemonte. This particular artist went so far as to paint the city of Avignon instead of Rome in a later scene of the hagiography. The author also dismisses the hypothesis that the structures in our fresco actually belonged to the Romans bridge in the Late Middle Ages.
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Matteo Giovanetti

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I added the frescos to the map, this adds a whole new range to the west of the northern Italian activity. I guess in effect you're mapping the range of influence of Italian fresco painters.

Pierre, I think you're more on top of what else is missing from the recent discussions, so feel free to add to the map as needed.