The Voynich Ninja

(06-11-2023, 11:11 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I've said so often in this thread that battlements were among the most common things to be changed/renovated on a building, so they should always be regarded with suspicion. If a building has swallowtail merlons now, it is absolutely not certain that it had those originally.

Of course.

(06-11-2023, 11:11 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This whole thread is full of people demonstrating that the merlons on buildings were pre-1450, so it can be done. But it requires some research.

With varying degrees of confidence.

(06-11-2023, 11:11 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you would like to make an unresearched version of the map, that's fine by me, but I'm not interested in that.

It does rather seem what you are suggesting is an "unresearched" approach. If someone has a suggestion which has not been considered before and is possible then putting on a list , if not a spreadsheet, is useful. For one, then it can be easily checked if that example has been investigated or excluded before. It is not necessary to put them on the map if you have your reservations.

If they are so easy to find on a Google Search why it is so easy then to find examples not mentioned on this thread?

I will try to date the suggestions that I have listed as much as is reasonably possible. Though I have had a good go at some of them already.

It is not so easy to find any that were built before 1450. After the political effect came the fashion. Because they look beautiful. Most of them came much later.

Example: Castello di Thiene
Was built as a villa or palace. Architect known. After 1478.
ca.1560 (architect known). Construction of the 2nd floor plus surrounding wall. Now it was given the name Castello.
Therefore the building is not mentioned. A lot of work, but it has to be done.

Note:
Battlements have a protective function to provide cover for archers and crossbowmen when they need to draw.
If battlements have no protective or combat function (villas, palaces, churches, etc.), they are merely decorative and should be sought in the 16th century.

It would help to have a list of swallowtail merlons buildings yet to be determined as to whether they pre-date 1450 as it may help to investigate them all in one go. Do we have such a list? I may just send them each an email to enquire.

I don't actually think there are so many realistic examples to consider.

I used to have such a list, but I never looked at the dates these were constructed or added. It will be very easy to assemble a list of 50-100 places in a concentrated effort of a day or two.

When I did this, the search engine to go to was altavista.
It returned fewer hits. Google can now do much more, but it tends to always concentrate on the same subset of examples, which is why it requires a dedicated and concentrated effort to look a bit more deeply.

Here is a collection of castles.
Click on continent / country / region / castel

Hier ist eine Sammlung von Burgen.
Klicke auf Kontinent / Land /Region / Burg.
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Would Castel Soave of Verona qualify .. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.? 

The Castle of Soave is a typical medieval military edifice, commanding the neighbourhood of the city from the Tenda Hill. It comprises a mastio (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and three lines of walls forming three courts of different size. The outer line, with a gate and a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., is the most recent, built by the Venetians in the 15th century. It houses the remains of a small church from the 10th century.

The second and larger court, the first of the original castle, is called della Madonna for a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. portraying St. Mary (1321). 

[attachment=7879]

A nice, but also deceptive picture.
Question: Why are the dovetail battlements higher than the surrounding ones? Why is the basic structure in natural stone? Why was brick used? (Brick is a good clue for later work.)
Many rulers and battles took place.
The third wall was built after 1450. Stick to the core fortress. This one has none.
Now it's time for detailed research.

Castel Masegra is a fine example.
Why ?
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[attachment=7880]

Take a close look.
Sometimes old building conditions become visible again. Old tower with battlements.

Maybe a bit off topic, but this is a nice list of walled citadels and castles in Italy, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.