The Voynich Ninja

(08-11-2021, 10:55 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There's a really nice example circulating without any MS reference. 
See here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Hi Koen,
did you notice that the alamy page says the illustration is from Venice? If it is a ms at the Marciana, it is likely that digital scans are not available.

This seems like a very reasonable explanation, Marco. I will include it with Venice until further notice.

Another You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. says the ms is in Padua.
Since the page includes an imperial eagle, it seems strange that it was made in Venice? In principle, it should be possible to identify the red and blue device on the right.

Another question might be, who was the illustration made for? Venice could certainly manufacture to suit the client, I would suppose.

Red and blue is heraldically uncommon, so perhaps this is red and vair, (squirrel skins), which are standard in blue and white. I see the remains of a curved white line at the left side of the fess. It would still be the same blue paint but the white wore off.

The left insignia is even in worse condition. The colors are gold on black, and the gold appears diffusely scattered rather than in any specific area. Most likely then would be a gold lion rampant on sable, if that is historically appropriate.

(09-11-2021, 06:44 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Another You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. says the ms is in Padua.

Since the page includes an imperial eagle, it seems strange that it was made in Venice? In principle, it should be possible to identify the red and blue device on the right.

The most information I've seen so far is on this stock page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:Stock Photo - Frederick II's crusader soldiers at the gates of Jerusalem, 1229, miniature taken from Descriptio Terrae Sanctae by Burcardus Theutonicus or Burchard of Mount Sion, 14th century manuscript. Crusades, 14th century. Padova, Biblioteca Del Seminario Vescovile (Library)

If it is held at Padua, then it shares its home with one of the Dioscorides manuscripts that are in layout most similar to the large plants section:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (hosted on Touwaide's site)

Marco said:

Another You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. says the ms is in Padua.

Koen said:

The most information I've seen so far is on this stock page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Stock Photo - Frederick II's crusader soldiers at the gates of Jerusalem, 1229, miniature taken from Descriptio Terrae Sanctae by Burcardus Theutonicus or Burchard of Mount Sion, 14th century manuscript. Crusades, 14th century. Padova, Biblioteca Del Seminario Vescovile (Library)

Hi, Koen and Marco:

This library does have a listing of its holdings on its website entitled You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view./List of Manuscripts Preserved in the Ancient Library of the Bishop's Seminar of Padua (2017) (Google translate)
There is a Descriptio Terrae Sanctae by Burchard of Mt. Scion listed as Cod. 74.

[attachment=6007]

Here it is in the handwritten catalog (no additional information, unfortunately):

[attachment=6009]

So it's looking pretty good.  There is a place to request reproductions -- although it seems from the spreadsheet that this volume is maybe part of a CD of reproductions that the library has produced (although my lack of Italian maybe confusing me on this)?

Had hoped maybe there was more online, but it seems it has to be requested.

Thanks, Michelle. I was also looking around a bit by googling some keywords and I came to this paper: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


It says that Padova, BSV, Cod. 74, fol. 13v (the MS from your list) contains a miniature that shows crusader-occupied Jerusalem. This seems definitive, so I will update the list.

With a date of "early 14th century", this could be our earliest manuscript. I haven't read anything about where it was actually made though.

(09-11-2021, 10:21 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.With a date of "early 14th century", this could be our earliest manuscript. I haven't read anything about where it was actually made though.

Last bit down this rabbit hole.  So I checked the listed publications on the library's holdings that was on their website and the only one for Cod. 74 is actually about heraldry.  It is an article in a book that was published to commemorate a professor's birthday.  I could not find a copy online.

Original German

RIEDMANN J,  Ein heraldisches Zeugnis aus der  frϋhen Habsburgerzeit in Oberitalien?  Eine Annäherung  – aber keine sichere Losung,  in  “Semper ad fontes” Festschrift für Christian Lackner zum 60. Geburtstag,  Wien 2020, p. 233-245 [Sul cod. 74]

Die aus Anlass des 60. Geburtstags von Christian Lackner, Professor fur Historische Hilfswissenschaften mit Schwerpunkt Mittelalter an der Universitat Wien, publizierte Festschrift versammelt insgesamt 24 Beitrage von Kollegen, Freunden und Schulern aus Osterreich, Deutschland, Italien, Slowenien, Tschechien, Slowakei und der Schweiz. Die behandelten Themen orientieren sich an den Forschungsschwerpunkten des Jubilars, wobei hilfswissenschaftliche, quellenkundliche und verfassungsgeschichtliche Fragestellungen dominieren. Neben landeskundlichen Studien zur Geschichte der Lander Osterreich, Tirol, Karnten und Krain enthalt der Band unter anderem Beitrage zur Universitatsgeschichte, zu den Markgrafen und Herzogen von Osterreich und ihrem Umfeld sowie zum Urkundenwesen und zur Geschichte landesfurstlicher und kaiserlicher Kanzleien.

Google Translate



RIEDMANN J, A heraldic testimony from the early Habsburg era in Northern Italy? An approximation - but not a safe solution, in “Semper ad fontes” Festschrift for Christian Lackner on his 60th birthday, Vienna 2020, p. 233-245 [Sul cod. 74]

The commemorative publication published on the occasion of the 60th birthday of Christian Lackner, professor of historical auxiliary sciences with a focus on the Middle Ages at the University of Vienna, brings together a total of 24 contributions from colleagues, friends and students from Austria, Germany, Italy, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Switzerland . The topics dealt with are based on the main research focus of the jubilee, with auxiliary scientific, source studies and constitutional-historical issues dominating. In addition to regional studies on the history of the provinces of Austria, Tyrol, Karnten and Krain, the volume contains, among other things, contributions to the history of the university, the margraves and dukes of Austria and their surroundings, as well as the document system and the history of princely and imperial law firms.

So -- I guess other people have noticed the unusual heraldry in the illustrations beyond us.  I was hoping there was some discussion about where or when the manuscript was produced (there could very well be useful information in the article) -- but I do note the tone of the title implies that they were doing some speculating, too.

Thank you, Michelle!
Then R.Sale was right about the blue fess not being blue: it is silver and that is the coat of arms of the house of Habsburg from Austria.

Please keep in mind that such coats of arms are often erased and/or over-painted when a MS changes ownership. It may not refer to the first owner or the person who commissioned the work.