What are the the reasons that heraldry fails, or succeeds, as a method of interpretation in the VMs Zodiac and as a historical validation for the significance of Stolfi's markers in f71r?
This image is weird from what I pulled from the voynich manuscript f28v. Could this indicate the Voynich was produced in 1475? There is a place mark below 4 and 1 and would that indicate shift? Is this found in other manuscripts from that time with that marker as a shift indicator?
JKP brought to our attention the flag finials decorating the rooftops of some of the buildings in the 9-rosette foldout.
"Also on the rosettes page, many people notice the Ghibelline merlons, but they don't seem to comprehend the importance of the saddleback roofs. They are almost as significant as the merlons! Saddlebacks with the flag on each end were a very specific architectural style that is hard to find outside of certain areas in the 15th century. France, southern Switzerland, Bavaria, a few of the northern Italian (Lombardic) states, and some of the Lombardic and German colonies in the Greek islands are the major areas where you find flagged saddlebacks. Since people walked in the 15th century, it was important to know where to enter a city, or you could end up walking a lot of extra miles. Each culture had a slightly different way of indicating a portal and flagged saddlebacks were primarily Frankish and Germanic."
So I decided to open a new thread to discuss where and when in history we can see examples of this architectural detail.
My first example is from the Nuremberg chronicle, 1493
In the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I posted this image of a nymph on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. who appears to be holding a rounded beige object under her arm:
Then Koen pointed out that it might not necessarily be an attempt at depicting an object, but just something weird with the coloring, since we can find in the same pool a nymph where the hollow is filled in with green and another where it is left blank:
Now while filling the hollow in with green makes sense, and leaving it blank can be attributed to sloppiness, filling it in with beige is clearly a deliberate choice. In any case, this got me looking at "arm hollows" a bit more closely. Oddly enough, it's clear that the illustrator was paying careful attention to exactly what is depicted within these spaces.
Take a look at this pair of nymphs from f81r:
The front lock of hair on the nymph standing in the back is strange in that it's abnormally long and is extended out at a large angle from the top of her head. And as we can see, the lock of hair ends up in the arm hollow of the nymph directly in front. The illustrator must have drawn the hair this way because it was important that the hair be shown within the arm hollow.
Now look at this pair of nymphs from f75r:
This time it's a nymph's leg that's abnormally elongated and again it winds up the arm hollow of the nymph in front. It seems like this must have been deliberate.
Now if we turn to the pages of the Zodiac section where the nymphs are standing in cans, we can find that sometimes the arm hollow is filled in with dots, and sometimes it isn't:
Looking at just these two examples, it seems like the dots are just the interior surface of the can, which is visible in the arm hollow in the first example due to the strange way the can has been drawn, and not in the second example. We can provide further evidence for this view from looking at another example:
Here the nymph is standing at one side of the can, so we can clearly distinguish the interior surface of the can and see that it is in fact filled with dots.
Thus far it seems like everything can be explained by whether the inner surface of the can is visible or not, but now look at this one:
If we look under the right arm hollow (from our perspective), the rim of the can is clearly visible... yet there is also a row of four dots above the rim. Obviously these dots cannot be explained as a simple depiction of the interior surface of the can. It must have been important to the illustrator that dots be shown in the arm hollow for some other reason, and the awkward bend in the arm also suggests that it was drawn with this purpose in mind. Interestingly we also see four dots in the other arm hollow, yet no can rim is visible, even though it seems like it should be there.
There are some other oddities regarding arm hollows, such as in this example:
Here there's an odd beige stripe behind the nymph's head that winds up in the arm hollow. Is it the nymph's hair? It doesn't appear to be, because her hair is generally not colored in. Yet again it seems that something is done simply to influence what is depicted inside the arm hollow.
Anyway, this list of peculiarities does not exhaust the observations that can be made regarding arm hollows, but I think it suffices to prove that the illustrator was certainly thinking about this. I have no idea what it means, so naturally I welcome any further observations or parallels that can be found in other works of art.
There are several small letters written in the upper corners of several pages in the "cosmological" section. I've collected all the ones that I could find and put them along side the first three letters of the "erased key" on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for comparison:
Several questions:
What purpose did these letters serve? Did it have to do with an attempt to put these pages in the correct order?
Are there two different hands in this marginalia? The letters on f68 appear quite similar to the erased key, but different from both the "a" and the "b" on f67 and f70.
When and where were these letters added? Is there anything paleographically distinctive about these letters that might point to a particular time and place? More specifically, is it likely that these letters were added during the Prague period, or were they added before or after that time?
I represent all the "wide gallows" "the k" and "t", as well as a non-standard a selection gallows "f" and "p". Your thoughts about these characters? Figure 23 and 24 - the same glyph. I ask to make the computer processing of the dedicated fragment of yellow in Figure 12. My opinion: on the left leg is a loop. If is the loop, there in the text at all is no the "broad gallows" "k".
There are a thread, which discusses why the is no double gallows? My suggestion: Figure 38 - "p + p" Figure 42 - "p + f" Figure 28 - "f + t" Figure 29 - "k + k"
In Figure 27, the author originally wanted to to write normal gallows "p", but then extended the line up and wrote "wide gallows" "p".
First off, I believe that the Voynich Manuscript is a cipher, but not in natural language form (meaning the glyph’s are not arranged as so). I truly believe there is text, a book or books that were used to produce the manuscript, but in the art of numbers. Yes if you interchange the glyph’s you can get the same result and therefore make the script seem as a major null as a natural language. So it would seem to violate frequency analysis to equate to an alphabet. The cipher in number form adds a natural defense at trying to decode the main body of the text; by the premise of a number system in which I believe John Dee would be so inclined to do. John Dee used a number system in which he associated divination to letters as numbers. Yes I even attempted to decode several paragraphs from 16th century Bibles. Although not in welsh which violates the main thrust of the language that I propose it is in Welsh! And it was not verse by verse so that was a failure. [font=arial, sans-serif]However, if you attack the Voynich Manuscript from a theme and imagery perspective along with a sound cipher many words have come forth which represent its meaning. The cipher which I came up with is a number system which letters equal numbers. I approached this decoding method in the Voynich Manuscript from the most intricate approach attributed to the Zodiac in folio 67r2. Furthermore this became the base of operations for my cipher in which I added upon. This should answer the (Strange) question. However Mr. Strange you have to line up the Zodiac on top of creating cipher for that to work. If you can present one using a number system in a different language; I would like to see it and I will allow 1 Zodiac sign to be a different language to be fair. Every attempt in history here has been met with failure; but I noticed a glyph equivalents to the (scorpion) and, (craf, i.e. garlic) equaled a 1 in along with the code I embraced for this image of craf in f99r; as the Voynich Glyph’s which I associated to have number equivalents added up to a 1. [/font] oHae89 o=6, H=8, a=1, e=5, 8=8, 9=9 } All add up and equal a 1
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This cipher I have found which I’m certain is used within the Voynich Manuscript has confounded the language to numbers. It does not follow order of a natural language which has kept it secrets for so long. The words which I have found are in Welsh would be 85 out of a hundred. And they correlate to the imagery and themes. The reason I have 15 words outside of welsh is attributed to known astronomy words in which John Dee would have known. John Dee also annotated a Welsh to English Dictionary (1)! I discount the, “Boke of Jona”, because it was just an attempt in which it produced failure from not following verse by verse and its outside of the Welsh Language. So in a sense I’m just using Welsh with astronomical and astrological slight imbalances to the overall language. That is fair! I’m certainly not using every European Language.
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1) The facts are the images and themes tell a story on their own.
2) The Voynich word has to add up and equal the Welsh equivalent word
3) Translate that in which the cipher meets the images head on.
4) And the theme words correlate to the whole picture; I would say no this is not just a coincidence from 1-9. [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font]
It’s a number system; whether or not Pythagoras came up with it, I used it for my cipher.
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(1)William Salesbury his Dictionarie in Englishe & Welshe, or Brytishe. 4o London 1547 :
Dee’s copy is now TCD, EE.e.32 (formerly C.10.17). At the head of the titlepage is ‘John Dee’. In the first half of the book, up to sig. K, he extensively annotated and corrected it; in some instances where Salesbury had put words of English origin in the ‘Camraec’ column, Dee supplied a Welsh word and occasionally, where Salesbury left a blank, he supplied an English equivalent. He also corrected equivalents in both languages. Later owned by abp. Ussher. See R. G. Gruffydd and R. J. Roberts, ‘John Dee’s additions to William Salesbury’s Dictionary’, Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, n.s. 7 (2001), 19–43.
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I'm not sure about her decoding method yet the imagery makes sense to the use of a microscope. To me You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does represent a woman's fertility organs. I'm going to see if my numerology can make sense of it
In the VMs Zodiac and various other places, the person who put down the VMs ink work makes use of a simple, but interesting artistic element. It consists of two relatively longer, closely placed, parallel lines that are crossed at regular intervals by a series of short lines. The use of this element is most obvious in some of the tub patterns at the start of the VMs Zodiac, but it also occurs in some of the patterned markers found in the circular bands of text from the Zodiac to the Nine Rosettes.
In the examples from the tub patterns, there seems to be an obvious intent to create a regular, alternating pattern of marked and unmarked bands. A variation of light and dark, in artistic terms, if you will, rather than all the same. This is the artistic technique of hatching, lines drawn to create shades of light and dark.
The hatching conundrum has long been a topic of discussion: the who, where and when particularly. I recently found a Wikipedia article on an artist known only as Master E. S., from monogrammed playing cards, etc. However the historical record of this artistic technique is problematic for VMs investigations that want to hold the VMs parchment dates and the VMs creation dates close together.
Either the VMs contains a very early use of hatching technique or, perhaps, it is something else. One suggestion in that regard was that the patterns were borrowed from pottery produced in Islamic Spain, that the pattern on the tubs came from albarelli. But I was left to do my own discovery, so you can see the potential flaws blossoming. However, what I found from examples was the use of a pattern with general similarities, but also with its own specific qualities. Various examples of pottery do have patterns of closely placed parallel lines drawn horizontally around the object, and repeatedly crossed by a series of shorter lines. In many examples, these lines appear to be quickly applied without particular concern that they connect with the parallel lines on either side. In the limited sample of objects I discovered, all representations of this pattern have the crossing lines oriented on the diagonal. This contrasts with the VMs Zodiac examples, which always have the crossing lines perpendicular to the longer, parallel lines.
In a few of the pottery examples, a bit more care had been taken to get the crossing lines all the way across and connected to the two parallel lines and in these examples there are some that show an interesting curve at either end of the crossing line, as they approach the parallel lines, making each of the crossing lines into an elongated 'S' shape. To me, the elongated 'S' pattern is indicative of a spiral. A spiral pattern is suggestive of twisted cordage, and the use of spirally wound fiber in basketry. So the pottery pattern could have come from basketry, but how do potential ropes help to explain the drawings of the VMs Zodiac, especially in the chevrons of VMs Pisces?
In separate investigations it has been shown that Egyptian art exhibits the use of ladder-like patterns. However iit is not clear what the use of this pattern may represent in the Egyptian interpretation. Even more interesting is the occurrence of a 'ladder and dot' pattern, where the center of the square between each rung of the ladder has been marked with a dot. This occurs only once in the VMs, to my knowledge, interesting to see where that is.
It still seems to me that the VMs tub patterns, where these ladder elements are located, are intended to create designs that are composed of alternating light and dark bands oriented in different directions. Historically it is clear that the use of such patterns based on alternating bands can be found in heraldic tradition. Other VMs tub patterns also match heraldic tradition. Doesn't this establish a meaningful method of communication between author and reader, providing the reader is cognizant of the symbols the illustrations are providing?
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