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Scorpios
don of tallahassee > 02-02-2016, 04:20 PM
I offer the attached three-part compilation of four-legged Scorpios.
If you know of an additional Scorpio image that fits the pattern, I would appreciate a copy of the image or link so I can add it here.
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee -
RE: Scorpios
-JKP- > 02-02-2016, 05:35 PM
The "roo" one from Canterbury Cathedral is not uncommon for England. Most of the "dragon" style Scorpios are from England.
The roo one that has four legs, that's one I haven't seen and I doubt if it's very common. it's like a combination of the northern dragon Scorpio and the lizard Scorpio (which is mostly found in Frankish Gallic areas). Interesting find.
I was looking into this a while back and I suspect one of the reasons so many of the "lizard" Scorpios are in the northwest of Europe and have those bumps along their backs is because there is an actual lizard that looks like that—like a mini, skinny stegosaurus.
I haven't been able to find out what it's called yet but saw several pictures of it. It is green, with spots, with a ridged back. -
RE: Scorpios
MarcoP > 02-02-2016, 06:19 PM
Hello Don,
thank you for this extensive collection. Many of the images you present were previously unknown to me.
About the star in Voynich Scorpio medallion, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has pointed out a source that matches both the single star in Scorpio and the two stars in Pisces (Berlin Staatsbibliothek, Regimen Sanitatis ms, Germany, 1460 ca). -
RE: Scorpios
don of tallahassee > 02-02-2016, 07:12 PM
Too bad the scorpion has so many legs and a barbed tail and looks like a scorpion and was so late in date.
Otherwise - great resemblance.
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee -
RE: Scorpios
davidjackson > 02-02-2016, 08:02 PM
Quote:I was looking into this a while back and I suspect one of the reasons so many of the "lizard" Scorpios are in the northwest of Europe and have those bumps along their backs is because there is an actual lizard that looks like that—like a mini, skinny stegosaurus.
I haven't been able to find out what it's called yet but saw several pictures of it. It is green, with spots, with a ridged back.
Don't think there are many lizards in northern Europe - are you thinking of a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?
There is no iconography attached to Scorpio because of the tradition behind it - the traditions simply specify that Gaia created a "monster" called Scorpio which went after another of the Gods, Orion I think. Some traditions think it was a scorpion (from the name) but northern Europeans were a bit vague about scorpions and went for any sort of tailed beast. -
RE: Scorpios
don of tallahassee > 02-02-2016, 09:51 PM
(02-02-2016, 07:12 PM)don of tallahassee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Too bad the scorpion has so many legs and a barbed tail and looks like a scorpion and was so late in date.
Looking back, that sounds like a snide comment. Sorry. It was only meant to be funny. (I'm much better at snide than that.)
Otherwise - great resemblance.
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee -
RE: Scorpios
VViews > 02-02-2016, 10:03 PM
JKP & David Jackson,
your comments about lizards in Europe got me going on a search and it led to a really interesting critter, which would account for all the characteristics we find in our VM Scorpio, even the star!
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More detail & distribution map:
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ETA: This is not necessarily the specific species we are looking at, but what is of more interest to me is the etymology here, which may explain why he is drawn near a star:
"The name "stellion" comes from Latin stellio, stēlio (stelliōn-, stēliōn-), which referred to any spotted lizard, from stella, star." -
RE: Scorpios
-JKP- > 03-02-2016, 02:51 AM
(02-02-2016, 08:02 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Don't think there are many lizards in northern Europe - are you thinking of a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?
There are many lizards in northern and temperature zones, they're just not big like the ones in hotter countries. They live in many of the same eco niches as garter snakes. Unfortunately, a high percentage of lizards (and amphibians) is now going extinct due to habitat loss.
No, I'm not thinking of a newt. They are amphibians and usually have smooth, not ridged backs.
Also, the lizard-scorpios tend to be from Central Europe, not northern Europe. The northern European Scorpios, when they diverge from the traditional scorpion, are usually serpents/dragons, as the example Don posted from Canterbury Cathedral.
Many of the lizard-Scorpio depictions from Lombardy and eastern France expressly depict that ridged back and there is a lizard in the same areas in which the lizard-Scorpio drawings originate that has a ridged back that possibly served as inspiration for the drawings. -
RE: Scorpios
MarcoP > 03-02-2016, 12:04 PM
(02-02-2016, 09:51 PM)don of tallahassee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(02-02-2016, 07:12 PM)don of tallahassee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Too bad the scorpion has so many legs and a barbed tail and looks like a scorpion and was so late in date.
Looking back, that sounds like a snide comment. Sorry. It was only meant to be funny. (I'm much better at snide than that.)
Otherwise - great resemblance.
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee
Hi Don, I think that the stars that appear in three of the medallions (Pisces, Virgo and Scorpio) are also interesting, maybe not as important as the shape of the zodiac symbols themeselves, but not irrelevant either. I found your note about the Canterbury image particularly interesting and I tried to comment in the same line. So, yes, I was disappointed by your reply, and I appreciate that you took the time to comment on your comment
I will try to find a lizard Scorpio which also has the prominent single star.
Thank you again for sharing the images you collected! -
RE: Scorpios
don of tallahassee > 03-02-2016, 05:27 PM
I agree.
I already had the one image you offered in the larger collection of appendage-challenged Scorpios. And had noted the star - same as for the 4-legged images with what could be stars.
I'll send you (and anyone else) a copy of the whole file of 135 or so images if you'll send me your email address(es). If you don't want it, that's okay, too.
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Let me know if you want Word or PDF. Will probably send in Dropbox via Yahoo Mail.
It probably won't be of much interest to most Voynicheros unless they are involved in looking for images of Zodiac signs. Nothing much to see except some really goofy-looking ideas of what a scorpion was to the artists. Two have two heads and wings, but no legs or pincers. Lots of others have turtle shells. There are even a few that look like scorpions.
Thanks for understanding. I try not to be mean by accident. If you are ever in doubt, ask.
Sometimes the finger types and then moves on...and only later is it understood what the finger actually typed (and I really am usually much better at being snide - my hero as a kid was Snidely Whiplash).
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee