My search for the exact location of the root-and-leaf section mnemonic makers goes South, and we have a look around in Greco-Roman Alexandria (Northern Egypt).
On one single folio, we see things as: Isis-Tyche, protective deity of Alexandria. It's the Voynich, so she's disguised as a plant.
The famous Lighthouse of Alexandria:
And a snake wearing the crown of the pharaoh:
Lots of images again, so I'll refer to my post, where serious arguments can be found as well:
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Essential argument in justification of that manuscript - fake, are inserting rows (perhaps paragraphs), and the writing of these lines from the bottom up.
EXAMPLE 1 Order of writing lines "c", "b", "a". If the string "a" written earlier it would have been flat, and the text at the end of the lines would not rise up.
Example 2. The procedure of writing lines "g", "f", "e".
Perhaps simply insert string "f", But then the in the line "e" was not originally the word "rol".
Example 3. Sequence writing lines - "j", "i", "h".
Example 4. If the string "k" would be the first, you do not need a rung would be, and would not need to do a big gap, to circumvent drawing.
Example 5. The sequence of writing lines - "o", "n", "m".
I tried to find a solution of the displayed (extra?) 5 and 4 ladies
outside the circles but found only one possible solution in Mandean calender.
"Besides their New Year’s Day, Mandaeans also celebrate on the 22nd of May and they feast during the five days that immediately follow the Iranian New Year’s Day, the 21st of March (the 20th in leap years). " (source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Related pages in the VMS:
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and
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and
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Then i investigated the Mandean people and culture and analysed the language with help of a Mandean Professor,
but nothing really matched, although the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. direction was interesting because of the water rituals.
The solution on the zodiacs might be found there on the extra 5 and 4 ladies.
Here's a half formed idea that I'm going to throw amongst you all to see what response we get.
What is the Voynich text is nonsense - but the image aren't?
I've just finished re-Reading Carruthers art of memory and her ideas on memonics have stuck.
So imagine that every single image is encoded, and possibly the labels, into a mnemonic structure. A sort of visual shorthand. But the bulk of the text is filler to "throw you off the scent".
I am currently convinced that the Voynich Zodiac isn't a zodiac at all.
Instead, it's a late medieval Spanish-based myrogenesis - the attributing of specific characteristic to each degree of the zodiac.
The zodiac signs simply illustrate the month, the nymphs around the zodiac are paranatellonta, the aspects that astrology granted each degree around zodiacal sign.
In fact, I suspect the zodiac is actually a lapidary.
A year ago I put up a long blog post explaining this and examining historical precedent You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
I'm currently revisiting this topic with new information, and I'd love to hear your opinions on this before I finish off my article.
How outlandish is the Voynich MS imagery?
This is a very qualitative question, not one that can be answered on a scale from 1 to 10.
In the older literature one reads that the illustrations have no historic parallels, but is that
really true?
One way to get a feeling for this is by looking for other examples of possibly 'unusual' or even
'outlandish' illustrations in other MSs.
I would invite people to look for, and show examples here.
People who have seen images from the Ripley scroll(s), the Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit or
the Bellifortis probably already have a good idea what this could look like, but there is much, much
more. Ellie's blog already has quite a number of nice examples.
Let me just start with a MS with some interesting cosmological diagrams:
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I've mentioned a number of times that I suspect some Voynich plants have been inspired by Greco-Roman stories rather than imagery. In today's blog post, I compare these plants, to see whether their stories can be tracked to a single source. To my surprise, they can.
The five scenes that I analyzed all appear to have been taken literally from Ovid's Metamorphoses. This came as a surprises for me, as I wasn't expecting a single source, much less a Roman one.
There are way too many images to post in this thread, so I'll just link the post:
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I will gladly answer any questions or remarks, or address anything that's unclear.
How are the images in the first section of the Voynich manuscript different from other ancient herbals?
I would be interested in other people's opinions.
I attach visual comparisons between the Voynich ms and other manuscripts. I used four of the identifications listed by Derek Vogt on the site of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The plants are:
Betonica (Voynich You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Malva officinalis, marsh mallow (Voynich You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Papaver, poppies (Voynich You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Plantago (Voynich You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
The intent is not to comment on these specific identification hypotheses, but only to compare images between different manuscripts.
Manuscripts, left to right:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Pseudo-Apuleius Platonicus, England, 2nd half of the 12th century
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Tractatus de herbis, Southern Italy, between c. 1280 and c. 1310
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Manfredus de Monte Imperiali, Liber de herbis et plantis, Southern Italy, first half of the XIV Century
The Voynich ms, first half of the XV Century
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Herbal of Giovanni Cadamosto, Veneto, 3rd quarter of the XV Century (before 1472)
Of course, you don't need to comment on these specific plants and manuscripts. Different comparisons are definitely welcome!
In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Vviews asked if I could clarify my stance on the Greekness of the VM. I started replying there, but then thought the admins would appreciate it if I moved this discussion to a new thread. So here goes:
(08-04-2016, 09:20 AM)V Views Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Koen Gh,
I have a few questions, regarding this but also several other identifications you make.
Is your theory that the Voynich was produced in Greece? Or that it is a copy of an ancient Greek manuscript?
In any case, can you prove that the artefacts you refer to as inspiration for Voynich iconography were known in the 15th C?
My issue with many of the artefacts you offer for visual comparison is that they were rediscovered in the 19th century, such as the Victory of Samothrace for example, which you refer to in your blogpost referenced by MarcoP.
Although European scribes and intellectuals were certainly familiar with the writings of the ancients, I strongly doubt that they had ever laid eyes on the coins, pottery and imagery you refer to as inspiration, which were rediscovered much more recently.
If I am wrong, I would really appreciate a link to a scholarly article explaining the presence of ancient Greek artifacts in European monasteries or universities in the 14th-15th century.
I appreciate the questions, hopefully I can clarify at least a bit.
Well first of all, I'm not the first one to make the link with ancient imagery, Diane has been doing this for years.
To answer your questions:
- I don't have a theory yet, my insights are still evolving. Either way, I think the chance that the manuscript was made in present day Greece is small, and I see no reason to assume so. Hellenistic culture and imagery was spread far and wide, to the East, to Egypt, copied by the Romans...
- I am absolutely convinced that the VM is a copy, or slight adaptation of earlier sources. Or, more likely, a group of older sources blended together in a similar style. Like Diane, I believe these sources related to the Eastern trade routes, which linked the Mediterranean to the East.
- If MS Beinecke 408 is the result of an attempt at near-identical copying of these older sources, we don't necessarily need the 15th C scribes to understand the imagery. Remember that not all manuscripts produced in the Middle ages were original works. Many were copies, adaptations, translations... This is very important: I will never argue that the MS was an original 15th century European creation, and I see no reason why it should be.
You are totally right that many of these artifacts have been rediscovered too recently for it to be a 15th century European creation. This line of thinking seems very unlikely to me.
Lately I've had reasons to consider Byzantium. It has remained, at least partially, culturally Greek for much longer than mainland Europe. They would have had access to Eastern Hellenistic imagery through trade with the East. Note that many of the images I refer to in my blog posts were common on coins!
Specifically about the Athena aegis vs. nebuly line issue: I don't argue that whoever first made this had Greek vases standing around. That is very, very unlikely. I merely use them as an illustration that this was a specific pattern that would have been recognized. As JKP correctly remarked, this pattern was known in several earlier cultures as well. My point was, that the original makers of this imagery (let's say in 8th century Byzantium, just to say something) tapped into this tradition rather than the later nebuly line one.
In all cases, the imagery I provide are an illustration of a tradition, which to some extent lived on in places like Byzantium. Most of these statues, coins, frescos, mosaics... have been lost. The examples I cite just give us a glimpse into the imagery the Ancients.
The dating of the origins for the root-and-leaf section is still an issue, because if I assume Byzantium as the origin of the source material (so not the place where MS Beinecke 408 was later manufactured - that would have been in Europe), it could be anywhere between, let's say, the fourth and the fifteenth century.
A quote from an essay by Jonathan Harris (Hellenic Institute, Royal Holloway, University of London) "reading classical Greek and even composing in the same style were an integral part of Byzantine higher education. Whereas in the West secular education had tended to die out in the early Middle Ages, in Byzantium it was sustained. In each generation, those who took their education beyond the age of fourteen would be instructed in the works of the ancient Greek poets, historians, dramatists and philosophers. Thus any educated Byzantine in the imperial service would have had a knowledge of these [ancient and classical] works which would have been the envy of many educated Italians."
As you rightfully point out, the question remains up to which century they would have been familiar with the actual imagery I propose. In the earlier centuries, those involved in international trade would have definitely seen these images on coins, that seems for sure. But this is something that still needs to be investigated.
What I'm trying to say is: we don't need any totally crazy theory to explain how these images ended up here.
I'll gladly answer any other questions or clarify where necessary.
Seeing liquorice mentioned in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by Marco, I decided to put my notes about the potential Voynich liquorice plant into a blog post.
This is the plant:
And my interpretation of it, specifically, why the roots are arranged in a rather unnatural position, can be read in this post, including suggested label reading: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
![[Image: isis-snake.jpg?w=720]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/isis-snake.jpg?w=720)
![[Image: lighthouse.jpg?w=720]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/lighthouse.jpg?w=720)
![[Image: pharos2006.jpg?w=424&h=472]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/pharos2006.jpg?w=424&h=472)
![[Image: snake-and-vulture.jpg?w=396&h=218]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/snake-and-vulture.jpg?w=396&h=218)
![[Image: K22.2Pan.jpg]](https://i2.wp.com/www.theoi.com/image/K22.2Pan.jpg)
![[Image: liquorice.jpg?w=720]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/liquorice.jpg?w=720)