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Posted by: Diane - 09-11-2017, 12:31 AM - Forum: Provenance & history
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I hope I'm not mistaken in crediting JKP with this - I first read it in a blogpost of his - but the idea of engineering has recently cropped up in connection with discussions of the 'bathy-' section.
As some may know I think the assumption that the ladies are to be read allegorically in the calendar but literally in the 'bathy-' section is an assumption adopted without sufficient pause for thought, and I do not subscribe to it.
However, that said, the matter of geometer-as-engineers has cropped up again in connection with discussion of the tripartite sphere motif in Latin medieval art. As I've just indicated by my recent post, Oresme settled on the negative side of the question about whether or not the earth rotates on its axis, saying it was ultimately a matter of belief or faith. And it is in that context that the image of Christ in Judgement over the world starts to have the tripartite sphere rather than the traditional book.
That there was any argument at all is interesting and even the wiki article notes that the earth's rotation about its axis was asserted within the 'Abbasid period by muhandisīn: that is, geometer-engineers.
I find this of great interest, tying in with a number of factors, not least the inclusion in the Vms of a schematic diagram of the qanat. I realise that the identification has not met much positive response, but I have no doubt that's what it is meant for - the 'starfish' motif is used consistently to mean the highest point: of earth or of heaven.
But in any case, I thought that I should mention a book in which the Greek and the classical Latin terms are given, and a clear description of the Romans' technical notations. Note that among the Latin terms are 'calix'... cf. cup... and tubuli fictiles for earthenware pipes.
(Some 'ancients' among my readers might recall my deducing that the sort of pipe we see in the 'ladies' folios, pipe marked with regular lines of dots or short dashes - is intended as reference to terracotta/earthenware pipe, though here again the imagery in this context might not have been meant to be read with utter literalism.
Technical terms in
John Gray Landels, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (1978).
At the risk of being tedious, I'll say here again that people who make pictures are thinking in words - and if one can identify the words informing the expression of an image, it can be very helpful for correct interpretation and correct identification of source culture and period.
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| Proposed solution by Gerard Chesire |
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Posted by: Koen G - 08-11-2017, 07:59 AM - Forum: News
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I was recently contacted by phd student Gerard Cheshire, who wrote a paper proposing an Italian language solution for the VM. Even though somewhat strangely there's no reference to the MS in the title.
The paper can be dowloaded here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I haven't had time to look at it yet but will comment later.
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| Voynich’s Viennese Agency |
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Posted by: voynichbombe - 03-11-2017, 12:44 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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This is a continuation snipped from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I was wondering if a more accurate dating for Voynich’s catalogue #31 would be possible.
R. Prinke on the VMS ML archive names a rather rough timeframe of 1903-1915. X. Ceccaldi on the same list says “after 1915”. Anthony (surname avoided) states “after 1911”, etc.
Of course this probably more has to do with the “spy” activities of the Voynichs, which stopped sometimes before or during WWI.
But what would an agency do for the Voynichs? It sounds like a headquarter but maybe not like a stash of bookes at display.
It seems peculiar that the word “agency” is printed in italics on the catalogue cover, yet the address is reproduced slightly wrong: Correct would be “Peter-Jordan-Straße” instead of “Gasse”. It was named like this by the senate in 1904. Also, the house n° 27 happens to be in the 19th district, as the street now spans two districts, but it was built to this length only after 1909.
A.S. Levetus must be Amelia Sarah Levetus, a very interesting figure. She was an art historian and one of the first women to lecture on economics at the viennese university, etc. Essentially, what she did in house °27 was to run a language school, “She owned and taught at an English language school where she also organised a conversation club, the John Ruskin Club, which boasted a diverse programme of events and guest lectures on British history, culture and politics and offered trips to the UK”.
If you are interested, let’s try and add some pieces to the puzzle.
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| How correctly transcribe "bench" with an apostrophe? |
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Posted by: Wladimir D - 30-10-2017, 04:41 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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I met the statements of the MB researchers on not correctness of the transcription of sh "bench" with an apostrophe. I also have a doubt.
Let's start the discussion on the left side of the bench (S).
Along with the ordinary symbol "c + ' ", there is an elongated form, with the help of the horizontal bar, "c-". Figures 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. (6, 8, 10 are examples of the same words, but with the usual S). And in some cases, the line is intentionally painted fatter than the apostrophe, that there is a difference in comparison with "S". The most interesting is Figure 13, since here this ligature is used as a line label, and the crossbar can not be qualified as a connecting line.
There are two cases of writing a dash (crossbar) together with an apostrophe issuing from the right end of the crossbar, but without the initial "e" symbol. Fig. 16 and 17.
It follows that such a long version of the left side of the bench can not be transcribed as S.
There are a large number of benches in which the "i" symbol is used as the left foot. There are cases when such benches are written together with an apostrophe. Fig. 1-4. How can they be transcribed? There are 3 options.
1 / r + h by analogy with sh, when the left leg is -"e".
2 / i + h + ' h with an apostrophe.
3 / The apostrophe belongs to the crossbar. This is the code 164 V101
Fig. 18, 19 as a line label and very similar to the presence of this code in the text - Fig. 20.
I'm a supporter of the third option. Perhaps the ligatures in examples 16-20 are equivalent.
СКАМЕЙКА С АПОСТРОФОМ.JPG (Size: 121.66 KB / Downloads: 95)
To be continued. YOUR CONSIDERATIONS?
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| [split] The Strange Thing on 116v |
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Posted by: bi3mw - 29-10-2017, 05:22 PM - Forum: Marginalia
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Looking at the "strange thing" on folio 116v, I wonder if maybe an oven is shown. The side view of an oven is illustrated in the Washington Haggadah ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ). Matzo is baked, a bread made from unleavened dough. Eating this bread, as well as eating an "immaculate" lamb all up, is part of the Passover Seder in Judaism ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , Yehuda, Rothschild Haggadah, Northern Italy, c. 1450 ).
In the Christian tradition it was ( and still is ) customary to make different bakery products at Easter, but there is no fixed recipe. Accordingly diverse are these products. In German-speaking regions for example, there are many regional (early modern high German) names for this (ger.) "Gebildbrot": greding, gredmich, gredman or gredling....
Easter lambs were still slaughtered in the late Middle Ages, but mostly in the Greek Orthodox Tradition. - Illustrations of the Bible also show the preparation of a lamb ( see image no. 3, Historien Bibel, Germany, between 1375 and 1400, MS M.268, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ). These ovens have no similarity to "the thing" on f116v.
![[Image: pessach.png]](http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mwille2/VMS/pessach.png)
Edit: The man on image no. 2 has a prominent goiter caused by iodine deficiency. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is an explanation ( Kohn, Rachael, The Washington Haggadah by Joel ben Simeon: a Fifteenth Century Manuscript from the Library of Congress, The Australian Journal of Jewish Studies, January 1, 2012 ).
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| Central European origin |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 29-10-2017, 11:13 AM - Forum: Provenance & history
- Replies (35)
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Quote:... in the late 1990s when this rather silly 'central European' storyline was first produced ...
The "Census of Medieval and Renaissance Manuscripts in The United States and Canada", by Seymour De Ricci, with the assistance of W. J. Wilson, was first published in 1937.
In vol. II, on pp.1845-1848 it describes the MSs included in "The estate of Wilfrid M. Voynich", New York.
Entry nr. 8 has:
Quote:8. Cipher ms. Vel. (date uncertain, authorities hesitate between the XIIIth and XVth c.; we suppose it to be not much older than 1500),
[...skipped...]
The country of origin seems to be some part of Central Europe.
[...skipped...]
It was later in the Collegio Romano, in Rome,
[...lots skipped...]
This description was almost certainly provided by Anne Nill. This is just 7 years after the death of Voynich, and in a way marks a break with the Roger Bacon tradition.
In the Beinecke library there is a carbon copy of a letter from Nill to De Ricci giving an earlier version of this description which is much shorter. At the time, Nill was working for W.J. Wilson, and compiling the index of this catalogue. Wilson was personally interested in this MS.
In 1937, Nill received a letter from the UK shop that was just being closed. This included the paper slips with the reference to the private library of P.Beckx, which gave away the origin of the collection of MSs that included the Voynich MS.
The above text, which includes this connection, must have been a last-minute change, made possible by the direct connection of Anne Nill with the publication.
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![[Image: image.jpg?q=f103r-146-1118-92-516]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f103r-146-1118-92-516)
![[Image: image.jpg?q=f103r-129-636-133-350]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f103r-129-636-133-350)