Anton > 26-01-2016, 12:21 PM
-Job- > 01-02-2016, 09:38 AM
(26-01-2016, 12:21 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The question is ready - what do we do to "observe" the narration structure? Actually that is the question that I was about to ask - does anyone know any computational methods of revealing narration patterns in unknown texts?
crezac > 02-02-2016, 08:24 AM
-JKP- > 02-02-2016, 09:59 AM
(02-02-2016, 08:24 AM)crezac Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I think Stephen Bax is on the right track in trying to find meanings for labels as a starting point. I don't think there is compelling evidence he has found any yet, but I do agree he's looking in the right place. I think you're probably going to have to do the same too before asking if there is narrative structure in VMS.
crezac > 02-02-2016, 10:47 AM
(02-02-2016, 09:59 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(02-02-2016, 08:24 AM)crezac Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I think Stephen Bax is on the right track in trying to find meanings for labels as a starting point. I don't think there is compelling evidence he has found any yet, but I do agree he's looking in the right place. I think you're probably going to have to do the same too before asking if there is narrative structure in VMS.
It's possible the labels aren't labels. They might be a stream of text broken up. They might be fragments. They might be heavily abbreviated.
If you look at very old apothecary jars from eastern Europe, for example, they were so heavily abbreviated that only someone who already had an intimate knowledge of the contents (and could see and sniff them) could readily read them.
And, as I mentioned in another post, a label isn't necessarily the name of the item, it may be what it's for, the color, what it comes from, what it signifies, or a term to categorize it.
Take Bax's label for Taurus, for example. The assumption is that the seven stars are Pleiades.
It's certainly possible, Pleiades has been known as the Seven Sisters for a very long time and is readily identifiable in the sky. But it's also possible that the symbol in the center of the wheel is the sun or the earth, and the line running from it to the seven "stars" means they are connected and the seven stars represent Venus, Mercury, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn (the standard celestial line-up at the time) and that the seventh one, connected to the center, could be either the sun or the earth. There are also other constellations that consist of seven major stars.
So however those "labels" are read, because they are so short, several alternative interpretations are possible for almost any of them and not knowing which language (if any) underlies the glyphs multiplies the possibilities.
ReneZ > 02-02-2016, 11:22 AM
MarcoP > 02-02-2016, 11:46 AM
(26-01-2016, 12:21 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Provided that there is the narration structure, synthetic language will preserve it in its written form (natural language, obviously, will do that too, but I rule it out offhand for other reasons). On the other hand, cipher may preserve it, but not necessarily will. For example, a simple substitution cipher (which, btw, the VMS is definitely not) does only change individual letters through a pre-defined rule and does not change the order of words. Hence, the narration structure is preserved.
Anton > 02-02-2016, 04:27 PM
-Job- > 02-02-2016, 07:22 PM
(02-02-2016, 04:27 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Nice to see you in the forum. There is a very good idea at the VQP of a query that plots labels; unfortunately, it is not perfect, because I guess not all supposed labels there are really labels. It would be great if this query's adequacy could be improved and, furthermore, if one could plot "thematical" labels selectively (or if they could just be colour-marked).
ReneZ > 02-02-2016, 07:39 PM
(02-02-2016, 04:27 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... a homogenous set of folios would (as we might reasonably expect) demonstrate more or less similar sequence of "descriptive blocks" relating to certain topics, like (most roughly):
1) this plant is called XXX
2) this plant is associated with such and such days of month
3) this plant is associated with such and such stones
etc.