This morning I was reading the wiki about the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Like some other alphabets, it has interesting properties, like Voynich-resembling glyphs and a non-decimal system for writing numbers - but that is not the subject of this thread. It was the following sentence that made me wonder:
Quote:Examples of Palmyrene inscriptions were printed as far back as 1616 but accurate copies of Palmyrene/Greek bilingual inscriptions were not available until 1756. The Palmyrene alphabet was deciphered in the 1750s, literally overnight, by Abbé Jean-Jacques Barthélemy using these new, accurate copies of bilingual inscriptions.
If Voynichese is the result of enciphering in the strictest sense, it is just a matter of finding the key. Like "oh the vowels have just been left out and then you can convert it to Latin". This can be found, if studied long enough.
However, what if Voynichese is a historically developed writing system that is only known from this one source? For example, Byblos script is known from a dozen of inscriptions, and as yet it remains undeciphered. So if Voynichese is not a "find the key" cipher - is it possible to ever understand it without external sources like a bilingual document?
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for this - if so, apologies to Stellar and I'd ask the admins. to change it.
However, since there are mathematicians on board here, I would be very grateful indeed for any comment on the ratios given the central 'world' in folio 57v. I should add that I have some reservations about the diagram on this folio; certain stylistic details make me suspect that it could have been added considerably later - perhaps by Kircher.
However, these are the proportions of the centre. If anyone would care to comment. For example, do they match the ideas of any of the classical or ancient geometers about the world's proportions? Have they any significance in Pythagorea ideas? Any insights welcome. I posted this in March 2013, but there was no response at that time. (fingers crossed).
The posts where I treated it, if anyone wants the context, are: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
and another in response to a kind person's pointing out some work done by Rich Santacoloma, and which showed that the centre of f.57v has more than one "centre".
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I'd love to know what any mathematicians and/or classical-and-ancient historians make of those numbers.
I like to start with good data (and to verify what I'm working with), so I took a sample of this part of the drawing and enlarged it proportionally to set the scale to the same scale as the top leg in your example above (4.75).
Then I used the software to tell me how long the legs were (so I wasn't projecting an expectation of the length onto the measurements) and recorded it to the third decimal. The legs begin in the center of the VMS "dot" and go to the inner edge of the rosette. This is what I got... Going counter-clockwise from the top, rounded to two decimals:
4.8, 4.8, 4.7, 6.0
I'm inclined to think it's just a sketch (not a precise drawing), but I'm willing to look at things from another perspective. I'm posting the drawing so you can see where each measurement was made and decide for yourself if the sampling is valid enough for discussion:
On the recommendation of Thomas open a new topic, where I beg you to publish the results of strangeness. Comments are welcome to the findings.
New examples
Figure 1 and 2 are very similar, but are two different glyphs.
Figure 3. It seems to me, that on "bench" written no apostrophe, and the symbol "s".
Figure 4. crossbar gallows was corrected with green paint, which painted leaves. (See original scan, copying effect is reduced)
Figure 5. I think the code 147 (extended EVA) is composed of "s" + "e" ( on the third floor).
The strange form of an apostrophe on "the bench ", very similar to the style of" r "on this page.
Figure 6. Inserted symbol "I".
I found additional evidence which supports my method and I can say that John Dee was a perfect genius. The inner circle of folio 70r1 there is a complex form of Pi Numerology using the cipher he designed, which I decoded. Pi runs counterclockwise in a sequence of six digits, (i.e. 3.14159) which uses one Welsh word for five, (i.e. Mhum) and a Roman Numeral IV for 9. Everything adds up using the cipher which corresponds to a dual method of Pythagorean and Pi numerological systems. This is where the Cipher meets a proof!
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Well I just broke tradition with my method these are the first phrases ever decoded from the Voynich Manuscript. I had to get into the mind of John Dee a bit for this and with my knowledge and History of the Voynich it looks pretty clear what happened. John Dee wanted a great deal of Gold or needed it so he fooled Rudolf II. Rudolf was a depressed King who perhaps was enchanted with Dee and maybe the text was like an anti-depressant or an escape from his melancholy.
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Inside this book, the approach is about reading the themes and imagery labels within the VMS through the use of a numerology cipher which is attributed to the Welsh Language. The arduous task of finding a cipher for proper names in VMS has come about after seven years of on and off study of the text. The cipher is sound with incredible results for proper names. This intricate decoding method has unveiled the author, astrology, alchemy, herbs, seasons, maps and astronomy within the Voynich Manuscript.
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I was looking at Tom O'Neil's site yesterday to see how his numerology system worked, and it seems he noticed something which hasn't been discussed before (to my knowledge): there is clearly an alphabet on the first page:
ABCDEFGH ... OPQ... UV
It begins on the top right side of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and continues down vertically - here are the first 8 or 9 letters:
After that there is a blank space, but further down we get OPQ and maybe U or V (in the same handwriting as the U/V on f116v):
This could be important for at least two reasons:
1) Anyone who makes a secret code always writes their key somewhere, and the key is usually written next to a plaintext alphabet. I made my own cipher many years ago, and I always wrote the key next to the Roman alphabet, in alphabetical order. This leads to point 2:
2) It is clear that there were Voynichese symbols next to some letters. A clear <d> is seen to the right of "a", and there seems to be an <r> next to the "c". There are many other marks near Roman letters, but it looks like they were smudged out / erased (perhaps so that nobody could read the code). Just take a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for yourself:
I wonder if this column used to be a key. Imagery people (Koen, Wladimir, Diane, etc.), do you know if there is any way to locate traces of the removed letters using Photoshop?
Last thing: when I break down the VMS into my hypothetical "units", <d> always appeared where a vowel was needed - so <a> could be a perfect fit.
I've been wanting to ask the linguists this question for some time, but it always seems to come out as a criticism or challenge.
All I can say is that it's a genuine question from someone who dropped Linguistics 101 after six months.
Are statistical analyses and linguistic analyses able to isolate non-word uses for glyphs?
If you have - for argument's sake - something like [glyph meaning 'city'] + [City name, abbreviated]+ [number]+['degrees' sign/letter] [N, S, W or E]..
would a linguist be able to determine which of the glyphs was being used as a number.. or as probably a number.. and which were abbreviations and so on?
Second question: If he script is filled with numbers, abbreviations and so on, how does the statistical analysis serve a useful purpose.. again, it's a genuine question.
![[Image: f69r.jpg?w=840]](https://voynichnumerology.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/f69r.jpg?w=840)
![[Image: f57v-centre-measures.jpg]](https://voynichimagery.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/f57v-centre-measures.jpg)
![[Image: CenterProportions.png]](http://voynichportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CenterProportions.png)
![[Image: pi-numerology1.jpg?w=840]](https://voynichnumerology.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/pi-numerology1.jpg?w=840)
![[Image: indented1r.png?w=840]](https://voynichnumerology.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/indented1r.png?w=840)
![[Image: rainbow.jpg?w=840]](https://voynichnumerology.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/rainbow.jpg?w=840)
![[Image: 51FuSUJRJzL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FuSUJRJzL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
