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| Most certain plant ID's? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 30-12-2018, 05:52 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (95)
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Following the water lily thread, I wondered: which plants in the VM can be identified with an above average degree of certainty and consensus? Note that I don't say complete certainty and consensus since both are unlikely. Also, I don't mean specific subspecies (that's not the right question to ask) just general plant type. Let's say as specific as possible without straying too far into "maybe" territory.
See Marco's post You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for the origins of some additions.
Edited list so far (proposals where there appears to be especially great agreement are in bold):
- f1v Belladonna, Deadly nightshade
- f2r Centaurea (subspecies uncertain: knapweed, cornflower...)
- f2v Water lily
- f5r paris quadrifolia
- f6v Ricinus (castor oil plant)
- f9v Viola
- f16r Cannabis
- f17v tamus (dioscorea)
- f18r Calendula / Mountain aster
- f18v Malva (JKP)
- f21r Polygonum Aviculare, a Herniaria species or similar plant. The drawing is broadly considered lifelike, but there are too many plants that look similar. See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
- f23r veronica
- f25v plantago
- f26r Sedum telephium (JKP)
- f32r Prunella
- f35v Oak (but the climbing plant remains unclear)
- f43v Teasel (right)
- f49r Cuscuta (JKP)
- f65v chamomile
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| The first palaeographers to assert the Ms is in a humanist script? |
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Posted by: Beatrice - 25-12-2018, 08:20 PM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography
- Replies (24)
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Hello everyone
I am new here and I would like to ask you
who were the first palaeographers to assert that the Ms is written in a humanist script. Does any member from this forum know something about that? Is there any paper about it?
I have been re-reading An Elegant Enigma by Mary D'Imperio as well as Zandbergen's site. But I have not found any palaeographer's name or an expert on Historiography and its techniques. Only Helmut Lehmann-Haupt, Consultant to H.P. Kraus, suggested that "[...] palaeographically speaking, Italy is a likely country of origin" (p.7)
Nothing else. Thanks.  |
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| Implications of the continuity of Currier "languages" |
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Posted by: MarcoP - 20-12-2018, 10:46 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (21)
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Several researchers have pointed out that the features underlying Currier's A and B "languages" do not form two separated sets, but spread over a continuous range. For instance, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represents pages on the basis of word frequencies: Donald used Principal Component Analysis (PCA) to reduce the number of dimensions from the long raw vectors to plottable 2d points.
Currier A (green), Currier B (red), or uncertain (black).
[I have trimmed the image and made it more contrasted]
Similar results are presented by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The continuity between the two "languages" appears both in character-based and word-based analyses (this plot is by Sarah Goslee).
voynich1-charABcode.png (Size: 26.14 KB / Downloads: 379)
Researchers have drawn different conclusions from this evidence:
Donald Fisk Wrote:...Prescott Currier reported in Papers on the Voynich Manuscript that the text is in two separate languages or dialects, now commonly referred to as Currier A and Currier B. It will be shown here that this distinction is somewhat fuzzy. There are differences (see "A Principal Component Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript Words"), but these can be explained more simply by differences in the text's subject matter.
Rene Zandbergen Wrote:When Currier identified his languages A and B, he did this on the basis of the different statistics of the initial herbal pages in the MS [...]. It is clear that these have distinct properties - the clouds do not overlap. He also checked the other pages, and noted more variations, but his criteria for distinguishing the languages did not allow him to see that the overall statistics demonstrate that there is a continuum, and the other (not herbal) pages actually 'bridge the gap'.
This does not demonstrate that the text is meaningful, or that the text variations are caused by different subject matter (as suggested in by Montemurro and Zanette). If that were the case, the difference between herbal A and herbal B should not exist. The cause of the (statistical) language variation is still unexplained.
As always, things are puzzling. I understand that both points of view have their value.
Let's speculate
What are the implications of these findings?
What the reasons for the observed phenomena can be?
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| Events that may have obscured manuscript history |
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Posted by: -JKP- - 13-12-2018, 12:46 AM - Forum: Provenance & history
- Replies (5)
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Sometimes interesting articles like this come up, that reveal how a manuscript's provenance can be obscured by unusual events (the VMS certainly qualifies in this category, given that Voynich originally hid where he procured the VMS).
Here is a thread to post articles of this kind, and one to start it off...
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Unfortunately, this also happens:
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Sometimes the mysteries are solved (or partly solved):
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| Are Foldouts Always Shorter to Left but Longer to Right? |
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Posted by: ChenZheChina - 29-11-2018, 08:33 AM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (24)
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I checked René Zandbergen’s website about quire schemata, and found that all foldouts are bound in a way that their left is shorter while their right is longer.
Images are downloaded from René’s website.
schema09.gif (Size: 3.85 KB / Downloads: 314)
Quire 9: 2-page wide to the left, 3.5-page wide to the right
schema10.gif (Size: 3.02 KB / Downloads: 311)
Quire 10: 1-page wide to the left, 2.5-page wide to the right
schema11.gif (Size: 3.22 KB / Downloads: 309)
Quire 11: 1-page wide to the left, 3.5-page wide to the right
schema14.gif (Size: 4.86 KB / Downloads: 306)
Quire 14: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page wide to the right
schema15.gif (Size: 4.29 KB / Downloads: 312)
Quire 15: 1-page wide to the left, 2.5-page or 2-page wide to the right
schema17.gif (Size: 3.35 KB / Downloads: 311)
Quire 17: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page wide to the right
schema19.gif (Size: 4.23 KB / Downloads: 312)
Quire 19: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page or 2.5-page wide to the right
So here’s my question: Is this phenomenon just a coincidence, or a common practice at that time? In other words, is it possible for the original author to design pages that to be bound in a way where left foldout is longer than right foldout?
I want to ask this question, because I am trying to review and re-order Herbal-B pages. When I was examining the foldout f94-f95, I wondered that if I could bind between what is now referred as f95v1 and f95v2, a.k.a. f95r1 and f95r2, like this:
Untitled.jpg (Size: 125.72 KB / Downloads: 306)
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![[Image: nenufar.png]](http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mwille2/VMS/nenufar.png)
![[Image: deco01.png]](http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mwille2/VMS/deco01.png)
![[Image: deco02.png]](http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mwille2/VMS/deco02.png)
![[Image: 2014_CKS_01550_0005_007(an_astrological_...ted_m).jpg]](https://www.christies.com/img/LotImages/2014/CKS/2014_CKS_01550_0005_007(an_astrological_and_fortune-telling_manuscript_in_german_illuminated_m).jpg)