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| foldouts line transcriptions |
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Posted by: Davidsch - 08-02-2017, 07:39 PM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (4)
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During analysis of the text I've located an anomaly
Often this an indication there is something wrong.
It surprised me that after all this time I did not notice it before,
and rather inconvenient, because now I realize many (of my old) statistics are actually false.
The foldouts, have a transcription which is spread along the width of the foldouts !!
f101r1 => the transcript is actually of page f100v + r1 + r2.
By inspection it sounds logical. But it is rather special, having such long lines of text !!
f101v2 => i did not know this is a foldout !! Now You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
tells that f101v2 actually holds the transcript for 101v2 + v1 !!
Since there is no picture of the foldout, I do not know if the text really is 1 long line,
or that actually the text has to be cut up into 2 pages.
Zandbergen writes: "There are 10 lines of text in three paragraphs, all at the bottom of the page. The text crosses the vertical fold between f101v2 and f101v1 and spans the total width of the foldout folio. The last line has been centred, also in the middle of the pair of pages. The fold, which is rather damaged, makes reading of part of the text very difficult."
But, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., tells that
# This page spans two normal-size panels (f101v2 + f101v1) in a
# four-panel fold-out folio. They were originally entered as two
# separate pages (f101v2 and f101v1). However the text and plants
# clearly connect across the joining fold. [Stolfi]
I would like the possible to decide for myself if it is or is not a long line of text.
Unfortunately, I did not find such a picture of the entire stretched foldout.
f89r2
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It is not difficult to see that indeed the text is written as one long line along 89r2 + r3
f89v2
It is not difficult to see that indeed the text is written as one long line along 89v3 + v2
---
Question to René "so called" Z.: are there more texts which are really long foldout texts?
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| What is the VMS text? |
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Posted by: stellar - 07-02-2017, 11:29 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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I believe a poll here is needed for sort of a guide that everyone can see and maybe agree upon. There are many perspectives and theories of just what the text is. Maybe a consensus can be reached regarding the VMS text by people who have been working in Voynich studies for years. I will leave this as an ongoing poll and open so that we can acquire the most data on the texts meaning relating to what it could be.
Please part take in this experiment as it will be beneficial to all. Your input is valuable regardless of how long you have held your ideas about this subject. Also as time goes by and if your ideas change just state that here in a post. We have to share more on this topic as if we have enough input maybe we could target the text in a more coherent manner. I find that the most interested minds with a great deal of time invested in this subject may point us in the right direction; as to move most of us in a similar direction in targeting the Voynich Manuscript methodology for a possible reading or not.
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| The pragmatic nature of the script |
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Posted by: davidjackson - 07-02-2017, 08:36 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (24)
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I am always amazed by the pragmatism shown in the creation of the glyphs used in the VMS.
Medieval code glyphs tended to be elaborate. It was almost as if, when deciding to sit down and create a cipher glyph, the average cryptologist would say "the more elaborate, the more over the top and impressive, the more secret it will be".
OK, not always. But you can divide them into two types - the functional and the ornate. The first were designed to be used, the second designed to be shown.
Ornate ones are the impractical ones devised to impress. Look at the Arabian secret writing tradition; or the John Dee's Enochian.
![[Image: 550px-Enochian_alphabet.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Enochian_alphabet.png/550px-Enochian_alphabet.png)
Another is the Alphabetum Kaldeorum, which was a simple 14th century cipher alphabet invented by Austrian king Rudolf IV:
Alphabetum_Kaldeorum.jpg (Size: 56.8 KB / Downloads: 195)
Rudolf is reputed to have claimed that the alphabet was from India, but this appears to have been a misdirection. It's generally assumed that Rudolf invented it (or had someone invent it for him), as he was proud enough of the system to have it engraved on his epitaph. Some have argued that the letter shapes bear a resemblance to the theoretical cipher alphabet of Aethicus Ister, a work which we know about only at third or fourth hand, but which argued for the substitution of letters in order to secure the reading of the text. It's been suggested that the work was written by the 8th century Bishop of Salzburg, St. Virgil the geometer. St. Virgil was actually an Irish missionary who travelled the continent, and who had a major falling out with St. Boniface, who twice denounced him to the Pope for heresy. Other researchers have linked Aethicus Ister to other intellectuals of the period across the whole of Eastern Europe. If so, it's perfectly possible that a copy of his work was studied by someone in Rudolf's court who appropriated his ideas for his masters new code idea.
Although we appear to have no actual diplomatic correspondence written in this cipher, we do have a manuscript from 1428 which, along with some other non-European alphabets, describes the Alphabetum, (it resides at the University of Munich with the not very exciting shelf name of UB München 4° Cod. ms. 810).
These codes weren't designed to blend in, or to be easy to write. They were designed with the idea of secrecy in mind, but with no attempt at ease of use. Note the AK wouldn't be easy to write - we don't have any examples of it in use, but each letter would have to be individually written carefully to avoid confusion. M and Z would be very easy to confuse, as would I and K, etc.
Here's a medieval code from a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (you can easily see the difference between the enciphered portion and the plain text)
![[Image: p1110075.jpg]](https://uppsalalibraryculturalheritage.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/p1110075.jpg)
They are like this because they weren't designed to encode an entire book, only phrases or even words. The idea of encoding a whole book didn't appear until literacy was high enough to warrant this; indeed, in the middle ages the word "cipher" didn't even exist. The idea was always to hide the most important, key point. In all the medieval cipher manuscripts I know of, only key words or phrases are encoded.
For more pragmatic and smoother approaches, we have to wait for the Renaissance. Such as the Spanish diplomatic codes from the 16th century, which substituted abbreviations for phrases in a code book:
![[Image: milanese-cipher-part-3.jpg]](http://ciphermysteries.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2016/07/milanese-cipher-part-3.jpg)
That's when codes actually start becoming useful, and people realise that it's a good idea to a) be easy to write and read and b) not stand out too much.
But the Voynich glyphs are different. Obviously they stand out, but they were designed from the very beginning to be easy to write and read.
There is another medieval code which comes to mind, namely the number ciphers used by monks across northern France and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
![[Image: Ciphers_clip_image002.jpg]](http://www.davidaking.org/Photos/Ciphers_clip_image002.jpg)
But the notae elegantissimae described above evolved through trial and error. They weren't trying to encode the numerical details (the code was used for counting, such as items in warehouses) but trying to substitute the clumsy Roman notation in use at the time. The code vanished as soon as Arabic numerals came along.
So - why did the Voynich scribe decide upon a fluid script for his book? It seems a nonsensical question to us today, but it's a completely revolutionary idea for the late middle ages. Did the script evolve? (shout out to Koen!) Or was it designed from the ground up?
I suppose we'll never know, but it's fun to speculate....
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| root pages |
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Posted by: Davidsch - 07-02-2017, 05:25 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (2)
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What do you think is on the root pages?
The root pages: f100v_f101r1_f101r2 and following pages (added: there are 18 pages : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -till- f89v1 and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -till- f102v1)
for example
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
a) the root/herbal drawings:
I think I am seeing herbals
in particular small plants
all plant have roots which are brown colored
and the roots seem to get focus because the plants seems to be drawn casually
especially on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
b) the containers:
there are some "general" containers which are drawn casual, even without coloring
but also there are very fancy containers
some containers have labels
c) identification:
Are there roots that can be identified without doubt? for example ginger, onion, carrot
I see a possible ginger. But I am not familiar with the "common medieval" roots,
perhaps there is a list of common roots as a starting point.
Culpeper has such a list but he did not focus on the roots alone in his books.
But perhaps I should double check that.
d) relation to other pages:
What is the relation of the root pages towards all the other pages?
Are these pages stand-alone. I don't think there are stand-alone based on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. where root & plants are an the page.
On the other hand, why aren't there references (visual or textual) to the containers in the other text ?
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| Am I sick for finding this funny? |
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Posted by: stellar - 06-02-2017, 11:47 PM - Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media
- Replies (2)
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I feel his pain and the reason I have slowed down my posts is I believe I think what I found is correct however as some have pointed out there is no way to prove my work. Now if I'm correct I fear we all will never find meaning of the text of the VMS. Maybe language is not my game, I'm no dictator but has anyone here thrown a fit over the VMS or do you know of anyone who has been driven mad over the VMS? This maybe sick humor, but we are adults and we can handle it lol.
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| [split] Bax' label readings and "labelese" |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 05-02-2017, 06:46 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (24)
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Edit KG: in another thread the discussion veered towards Bax's "Taurus" and the possible existence of two separate text systems in the VM in general. I split the thread so this can be discussed separately here.
(05-02-2017, 05:12 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's based on [...], one of Stephen Bax's words [...]
Not particularly aimed at David.... but I'd like to point out that this word doary for Taurus was already suggested many, many years before Stephen Bax's work.
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| I need a venture capitalist! |
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Posted by: stellar - 05-02-2017, 06:31 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (4)
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Freemasons or Illuminati or anyone all funding is welcome: 
Torsten maybe right that the text is copied, but its not meaningless.
I wish to hire a programmer or programmers to use my cipher and decode the entire Voynich Manuscript to Middle English as I feel I'm correct that I have found the secret to the VMS.
I'm not a programmer so I need funding. Does anyone here know of anyone who would wish to create a website with me in the attempt to uncover the meaning of the Voynich Manuscript? I believe that at a certain point of the decoding process if I'm correct that at said 25% of the Voynich makes sense in Middle English this should be a proof to decode its entirety while on the project. At the moment I have about .45% translated words which are mostly stars and 3 VMS paragraphs entirely in Middle English which make sense.
I have an easy spreadsheet which converts my ciphered words to word numbers, but the most complex programming routine would be that the code converts Middle English sentences found to grammatical sense. I also have an extensive list of Middle English words and a Middle English Dictionary.
For instance this is part of f58r, lets say a string of numbers like this which I interpreted just using logic: If I can do this with my brain it would be far easier for a computer to interpret the whole VMS, but labels maybe a challenge I'm not sure. If you want to see the entire first paragraph of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. interpreted, search this site for (Lament from the Sea, New Method!) Its on 21.
here is my email: tomeneil@gmail.com
otalchal dal choldy okalys airaldy
60 34 69 77 75
eiaonao rao neorq etaoqs alkaorq
lutee, so Londes Conseil dispence
little, so London’s Counsel expenditures
XXI
shar ytar sheear cheoldy ykeol
20 38 26 72 60
hak qiak hccak nceorq qtceo
sa hye kan, therof. With
debt increased knowingly, nothing to them. With
XXII
cheal cheody chal chaiin ol oly sharam
33 57 30 52 20 37 43
ncao ncerq nao nallm eo eoq hakav
the delices, make hyne deef gye, but
the pleasures, make servants deaf governor, but
XXIII
okair chckaiin ytchaly dal chal ykal
49 86 73 34 30 53
etalk nntallm qinaoq rao nao qtao
talke benynge, lutt bifel. Oo canot
conversation good, little happened. One cannot
XXIV
okalal oly chal dy r chal qopaiim cholaly
57 37 30 35 18 30 81 67
etaoao eoq nao rq r nao wefallv neoaoq
boote gye! make ches em oo graunt Lionel
remedy governor! Make choice brother, one law Lionel
XXVI
dy shedy typchey ar air ytashy
35 46! NOT DONE, TWO MORE PARAGRAPHS!
rq hcrq iqfncq ak alk qiahq
Ches Leon.
Choose Leon.
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![[Image: image.jpg?q=f32r-745-1626-444-347]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f32r-745-1626-444-347)
