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+--- Thread: [split] Bax' label readings and "labelese" (/thread-1502.html)
[split] Bax' label readings and "labelese" - ReneZ - 05-02-2017
Edit KG: in another thread the discussion veered towards Bax's "Taurus" and the possible existence of two separate text systems in the VM in general. I split the thread so this can be discussed separately here.
(05-02-2017, 05:12 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's based on [...], one of Stephen Bax's words [...]
Not particularly aimed at David.... but I'd like to point out that this word doary for Taurus was already suggested many, many years before Stephen Bax's work.
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - stellar - 05-02-2017
(05-02-2017, 06:46 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(05-02-2017, 05:12 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's based on [...], one of Stephen Bax's words [...]
Not particularly aimed at David.... but I'd like to point out that this word doary for Taurus was already suggested many, many years before Stephen Bax's work.
This is actually Pleiade and they know they are wrong. Why would anyone put Taurus as the label for the 7 sisters? They forgot their coffee that morning.
doary
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - davidjackson - 05-02-2017
Short answer: Because the Pleiades cluster are part of the Taurus constellation.
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - stellar - 05-02-2017
David I know that but Pleiade is in the shoulder and the label is next to 7 stars. Would you put the label Taurus next to 7 stars or Pleiade?
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - davidjackson - 05-02-2017
Well, frankly, I don't think it's Taurus, so I'll give you that one.
Although a counter argument based on the small scale of the image, and the need to reference an important cornerstone of the zodiac displayed, could be made.
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - -JKP- - 06-02-2017
(05-02-2017, 09:27 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.David I know that but Pleiade is in the shoulder and the label is next to 7 stars. Would you put the label Taurus next to 7 stars or Pleiade?
It's quite possible that 7 stars represent the Pleiades cluster, but even so, there's no proof yet that the seven stars represent the Pleiades or that the label actually says (or denotes) Taurus.
The 7 stars might represent the solar system or any of the other constellations that are symbolized by the number 7 (there are quite a few of them) and the similarity to Taurus (linguistically or numerically) might be coincidental.
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - Koen G - 06-02-2017
Yeah I once made a count of astral concepts that were expressed by seven stars and there are a number of common ones. Depending of time, place and author, "seven stars" could refer to the Pleiades, planets, Ursa Minor but also less common groups like Coma Berenices.
I agree that the label of Taurus on that place is a bit of a stretch, though I've seen worse ideas
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - stellar - 06-02-2017
@ JKP
Quote:The 7 stars might represent the solar system or any of the other constellations that are symbolized by the number 7 (there are quite a few of them) and the similarity to Taurus (linguistically or numerically) might be coincidental.JKP,
Sometimes you are the most eloquent and wit driven guy around, but this statement begs to differ. The artist would not convey that here, knowing astronomy and astrology like he does as we know. If he wished to place a small solar system on the left of this folio he would have most certainly done the whole folio differently as in ellipses of bodies around the Sun. Other constellations? Which one in the night sky has so many bright stars neatly cluster and packed together?
You are right it is possible of the pleiade wrong about Tauris. I know this for a fact.
But this thread is about Eclipses and we have cast a shadow on this thread unless the folio has anything to with that which I doubt.
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - VViews - 06-02-2017
Well, JKP and I are in agreement over this one.
As I recently commented on Stephen Bax's site, if the label is Taurus shouldn't it appear in the Taurus pages? I was told that that is not how Voynich text works.
I didn't comment further over there because I didn't want to come across as disrespectful to Stephen Bax, but I find it awfully "convenient" that Voynich text should be a simple substitution cipher only when it fits assumptions based on the illustrations...
RE: Does the VMs show the solar eclipse of April 15, 1409? - ReneZ - 06-02-2017
I think that there is a bit more to it.
I don't know, of course, whether doary really says Taurus. It is one of many 'long shots' that
might turn out to be right but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
However, doary doesn't really fit the more or less regular word pattern of Voynichese,
and there are many more words that don't. It is conceivable (again one of these long shots)
that Voynichese is some kind of systematic encoding, while some individual words were
(exceptionally) rendered by a simple substitution.
This could make sense for proper names, for example, or for 'foreign' words.
Imagine that the entire MS were written in Hausa, but the Latin word 'Taurus' was kept in
this instance.