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| Foldout85v-86r imagery explained |
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Posted by: Mutemandeafcat - 15-01-2018, 06:56 AM - Forum: Imagery
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I created a better post describing the imagery. I don't think there is any denying my explanation of the graphics, and I thought that would excite the crypto sleuths, who are always looking for word clues. I think I provide many clues, for many words.
Always interested in logical criticism, and hoping for dialogue.
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| f13r - banana? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 11-01-2018, 12:58 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (47)
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The only proposed ID for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I've seen so far was in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by Diane arguing that it's some kind of banana. I'd like to know whether others share this opinion or if there are other possibilities.
In my opinion banana seems reasonable, and if it were so, the image would even be (relatively!) realistic. And naturalistic, without obvious symbolic elements.
![[Image: banana-morphology3.jpg]](https://bananaroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/banana-morphology3.jpg)
The image especially seems to capture well how a banana plant is propagated. A mother plant will grow suckers (see image above), little plants that grow next to it on the same base (corm). These can then be separated and planted elsewhere as a new banana plant. Instructions on how to achieve the best results are that the sucker has to include a good amount of corm. The leaves and roots are often trimmed, as shown in the diagram below:
![[Image: 86a2d249043f2f6030687c0e8fe52521--pinter...uckers.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/86/a2/d2/86a2d249043f2f6030687c0e8fe52521--pinterest-likes-suckers.jpg)
It was the following image which reminded me of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and made me look up more about bananas. These are suckers separated from the mother and prepped for planting:
Untitled-1.jpg (Size: 77.35 KB / Downloads: 397)
The color of the stem base depends on the species (which are many) but white-pink-red-brown shades are very common.
Then I did some more research; an important thing to know when growing bananas is the distinction between a "water sucker" and a "sword sucker". Water suckers are useless for replanting; they develop wide leaves early on, but will develop an inferior root system. Sword suckers appear as a spike, but they develop sturdy roots. The image below shows an undesired water sucker on the left and two sword suckers on the right. It looks as if the VM drawing might communicate something about the type of root that is to be preferred.
swordvswater.jpg (Size: 69.69 KB / Downloads: 397)
When a banana plant has been cut to a stump (or a stump has been replanted) a new leaf will grow from the centre, eventually growing out to a new plant. It's remarkable how this is again reflected in the VM drawing:
stump.jpg (Size: 123.44 KB / Downloads: 457)
Finally, when considering the fruit, it's important to keep in mind that the bananas-on-steroids we see on store shelves today are different than the varieties known originally; also, bananas ripening on the tree have an appearance quite like what we see in the VM:
fruit.jpg (Size: 85.22 KB / Downloads: 390)
![[Image: banana-tree-on-closeup-eegp78.jpg]](http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/9700252fa9234109800ad099482851cd/banana-tree-on-closeup-eegp78.jpg)
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| f67v2: the lunar - solar tides |
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Posted by: Searcher - 09-01-2018, 02:38 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (54)
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Hello!
Some time ago, most likely in the vms-list, I wrote a post about my supposition that f67v2 represents the influence of the Sun and the Moon on the Earth waters, i. e., the tides. I am sure, many researchers supposed it, too. Obviously, the idea didn't attract much of interest therefore I left that for "better times". Now I understand why this theory is not popular: gravitation was unknown in 15th century, there are no diagrams or images depicting the tides, at least, I couldn't find any. We can see many similar 4-divided circular diagrams of 4 seasons, 4 cardinal directions, 4 winds, 4 elements, but not 4 tides. It's amazing, as observations and theories about this phenomenon and its connection to the Moon existed much earlier 15th century. Of course, ancient scholars didn't know about the power of gravity until 17th century, when Newton discovered it, nevertheless they found another explanations. Read here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
But for a start, we need to figure out the imagery of the f67v2 to understand its meaning. I represent my simplified diagram of this page, which is not intended to be exact copy, but aimed to make some important (on my opinion) details more clear.
So, we see a circular diagram with the diagonal of the Sun and the diagonal of the Moon. The center of the circle is likely the Earth. At first sight, it seems that the "pipes" of the diagonals are identical, but, looking closely, we can see the difference:
1) the pipes with the number 1 push out something that, I think, was intended by the author as a simplified graphic picture of the tides (waves, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.), from which the Sun and the Moon come out.
2) the pipe 2 (with the Moon) emits something another, which is depicted as lines with points. I tried to understand, what it can be. My impression was that it means something like luminescence or evaporation.
3) the pipe 2 (with the Sun) pushes out the Sun on the clouds.
I suppose that the author depicted the pairs "cause and effect" or, perhaps, "tide - ebb".
I think, the pipes number 2 are united on the basis – meaning "cause", and the difference between the pipe 2 with the Sun and the pipe 2 with the Moon is in the nature of the cause.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. writes in his "Quaestio de fluxu et refluxu maris" (translated): "…the sun is primarily responsible for motions which take place in the air, and the moon for those which take place in water, since in these two spheres (i.e., air and water) the generation and corruption of all living things take place, and these two luminous bodies are the principal causes of every generation and corruption…"
A scholastic philosopher "Robert Grosseteste introduced an account of the tide based on the mechanism of rarefaction and condensation, stimulated by the Moon's rays and their angle of incidence. He considered the Moon's action over the sea an example of the general efficient causality exerted through the universal activity of light or species." You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. More detailed read You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It is notable that the pupil of Grosseteste, Roger Bacon supported and developed theory of his teacher. Detailed - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The most intrigued issue in the diagram of f67v2 is the corner schemes. I'm sure that the right top one depicts four phases of the Moon causing 4 tides (2 high and 2 low) during the lunar month, but the rest is only field for suppositions, which I have enough.
The left low scheme of four circles in the 3-section orb may depict the four tides (2 high and 2 low) during 24 hours term (day and night). Possibly, the blue and the red part implies two visible quarters of the sky (before meridian and after it), and the green part means the tides on the other side of the Earth when the Moon is under the horizon. (Detailed - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
I'm not sure whether the schemes of the solar diagonals represent exactly solar aspects and motion or they rather mean lunar schemes which aspects are influenced and increased exactly by the Sun or due to a certain solar period/cycle. The most enigmatic for me is the left top scheme of three circles. Maybe, it relates to eclipses and means some scheme like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Look at the modern animated representation: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Undoubtedly, it is very interesting who needed and could use such knowledge (theory) in 15th century, whether it is just meteorological observations or it implies a practical use in some field.
[Medieval writers believed the moon could do more than just cause tides – it could also affect ones health. Hildegard of Bingen, a famous abbess in 12th century Germany, explained that bloodletting was best done when the moon was waning (moving toward a new moon).] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It was generally accepted that the Moon has cool and humid nature, so it influences on all moistures in all bodies, but it is unclear to me how many scholars or physicians of that time connected effects of the Moon on the health and exactly the phenomenon of the lunar tidal waves as "rising vapours" (of the Moon?). Judging by all, it was not a wide-spread knowledge.
From the other side, the Sun and the Moon are invariable attributes of alchemical works, they may mean silver and gold, but, in the same time, they are fire and water, i. e., the "fiery liquid of the Sun" and the "aqueous moisture of the Moon", which, conjunct, make the "fiery water" – aqua ignis, aqua vitae, aqua or succus lunariae.
Unfortunately, I'm not strong in alchemy, so I can't judge whether astrological signs substitute some real chemical substances and processes, and "aqua vita" is just alcohol or they really relate to astrological/astronomical aspects of the alchemical work in traditions of the hermetic cosmology.
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| Mutemandeafcat *Voynich Manuscript: Early Thoughts on the Imagery |
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Posted by: Mutemandeafcat - 07-01-2018, 01:52 AM - Forum: Imagery
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First post to my blog about the MS.
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I don't know if this is really where I should be posting this, as it is not a academic paper, and I do not write like an academic. I did want to see if anyone else knew of this same interpretation, or if I am the first to document this interpretation (as incomplete as it is).
I am always looking for dialogue and connections, so I am posting this to reddit as well. I will edit it as I feel it's needed. I definitely would appreciate the pointing out of obvious mistakes, including typos.
Thanks,
Mutemandeafcat
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| [Essentials] List of relevant herbal manuscripts? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 05-01-2018, 10:27 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (22)
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It might be handy for the "essentials" subforum to compile a list of plant manuscripts which are somehow relevant to the study of the VM. We might introduce several tags, depending on which properties we find useful. Some ideas:
- Figures blended in plant parts (like a face for a root etc)
- Figures accompany plant (we might make an exception here for snakes etc since those are more common?)
- Large plant drawings (one per page?)
- Text around image
- ...
And of course indicate the relation between various manuscripts. They could be grouped by tradition, and each individual manuscript can be tagged with the relevant features. If we add links to digitized versions, this should become a handy tool for experienced and new researchers alike, as well as a framework for adding any newly discovered manuscripts.
But first we should discuss the best way of handling this, since it's important that the main contributors stand behind the method. Which kinds of manuscripts should we include? Which tags will be the most informative and relevant? Also, which kinds of features should we exclude? For example, many manuscripts feature a man-shaped mandrake, but this is really a thing of its own rather than a remarkable Voynich-like feature which sets a specific manuscript apart.
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| f68r3 |
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Posted by: Mutemandeafcat - 04-01-2018, 11:07 PM - Forum: Astronomy
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There is so much work and discussion around the section that contains the seven stars. I understand the logic and paradigms used in searching for the word Taurus but, I had a thought and, I was hoping some of you scholars could think this through with me.
Let's assume the seven stars are the the Pleiades (and there is going to be a lot of assumptions... old hat for you folks.) I feel like the masculine nature of Taurus goes against the female nature of the codex. So, what if the curved (female) line is going from the star cluster to the center figure communicating "I come from here" and/or "we are connected."
What if the center moon figure is Pleione their mother. She brings a lot to the table, as far as, connecting imagery in her mythos. Female, water, etc.
The large star above the seven sisters could be Elnath; which could be, the Butting One. But, not referring to the bull but, the goat. Or, it could also be Capella; Small She Goat. Which continues a female and not male narrative, and again, a goat.
I share this in hopes of both reasoning out this logic and to hopefully give you language scholars a few words to chase and seek. Goat seems like it would be helpful to find.
Thanks for reading.
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| As a Stargate fan I enjoyed seeing this. |
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Posted by: Mutemandeafcat - 04-01-2018, 08:43 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Nothing to do with my personal theory or anything... just thought is was awesome to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Next working hypothesis... Created by the Goa'uld!
In all seriousness, I am curious why this isn't discussed in the forums. I didn't find it in a search anyway.
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| Authentic replication |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 04-01-2018, 01:23 AM - Forum: Imagery
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The matter of authentic replication seems at first to be a purely visual situation. It is simply a determination that the item under consideration, the one that looks most like the original item, is the most authentic replication. And conversely it is often perceived that the lack of visual similarity carries with it a reduction, even the elimination of authenticity. This position can even become dogmatic.
This is where the creator of the VMs demonstrates a masterful talent with medieval information and the ability to improvise, to cant, and to compose. The composition is a puzzle. Improvisation occurs through visual trickery and optical illusion. Reality has been hidden behind a façade of fictitious existence. And in seeing only the façade, the reader is deceived and diverted from any investigation of how the VMs really does show connections to historical reality.
The talent of the VMs creator is not seen in the replication of visual similarity. That talent is shown in the ability to create an illustration in which a strong visual divergence can still exhibit a significant ideological similarity with the original, historical images. And the best example is the comparison of VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with the Oresme cosmos (BNF fr 565). And that comparison suggests a series of propositions.
·[font=Times New Roman] [/font]The Oresme model of the cosmos is not common in medieval sources.
·[font=Times New Roman] [/font]The Oresme cosmic structure is relatively uncomplicated. It consists of three parts: an elemental (inverted) T-O representation of the earth, a starry field, and a cloud band.
·[font=Times New Roman] [/font]The VMs cosmos presents a similar, uncomplicated structure in that it is also constructed without the typical, planetary orbits.
·[font=Times New Roman] [/font]The parts represented in the VMs correspond to the parts used in Oresme in an interesting way. They are clearly different in their appearance, but there is reason to interpret that appearance in a very similar manner.
·[font=Times New Roman] [/font]Thus the comparison shows a clear structural analogy and a strong ideological similarity in the details of the corresponding parts – with the option of enhanced visual similarity through the combination with the Central Rosette cloud band.
·[font=Times New Roman] [/font]The combined use of visual discrepancy, often created though artistic ambiguity, and ideological similarity is the method by which the VMs creator has disguised the hidden historical content in this mysterious text. The use of this methodology is intentional. Deception is intentional.
·[font=Times New Roman] [/font]The general failure of modern investigation is the reliance on visual similarity, while at the same time recognition is blocked by the inability to recognize the necessary sources and their corresponding ideological details.
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![[Image: d9bfa1772566fc0712efe2abb93b329c--the-moon-circles.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d9/bf/a1/d9bfa1772566fc0712efe2abb93b329c--the-moon-circles.jpg)
![[Image: 6fb9eba09df11cf6fe634db5c5954e47--solar-...-space.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6f/b9/eb/6fb9eba09df11cf6fe634db5c5954e47--solar-lunar-vintage-space.jpg)
![[Image: d6e627e7b0af0bca0c3308f9e10d2927--alchem...ymbols.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d6/e6/27/d6e627e7b0af0bca0c3308f9e10d2927--alchemy-tattoo-pagan-symbols.jpg)
