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+--- Thread: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides (/thread-2244.html)
f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - Searcher - 09-01-2018
Hello!
Some time ago, most likely in the vms-list, I wrote a post about my supposition that f67v2 represents the influence of the Sun and the Moon on the Earth waters, i. e., the tides. I am sure, many researchers supposed it, too. Obviously, the idea didn't attract much of interest therefore I left that for "better times". Now I understand why this theory is not popular: gravitation was unknown in 15th century, there are no diagrams or images depicting the tides, at least, I couldn't find any. We can see many similar 4-divided circular diagrams of 4 seasons, 4 cardinal directions, 4 winds, 4 elements, but not 4 tides. It's amazing, as observations and theories about this phenomenon and its connection to the Moon existed much earlier 15th century. Of course, ancient scholars didn't know about the power of gravity until 17th century, when Newton discovered it, nevertheless they found another explanations. Read here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
![[Image: d9bfa1772566fc0712efe2abb93b329c--the-moon-circles.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d9/bf/a1/d9bfa1772566fc0712efe2abb93b329c--the-moon-circles.jpg)
1) the pipes with the number 1 push out something that, I think, was intended by the author as a simplified graphic picture of the tides (waves, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.), from which the Sun and the Moon come out.
2) the pipe 2 (with the Moon) emits something another, which is depicted as lines with points. I tried to understand, what it can be. My impression was that it means something like luminescence or evaporation.
3) the pipe 2 (with the Sun) pushes out the Sun on the clouds.
I suppose that the author depicted the pairs "cause and effect" or, perhaps, "tide - ebb".
I think, the pipes number 2 are united on the basis – meaning "cause", and the difference between the pipe 2 with the Sun and the pipe 2 with the Moon is in the nature of the cause.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. writes in his "Quaestio de fluxu et refluxu maris" (translated): "…the sun is primarily responsible for motions which take place in the air, and the moon for those which take place in water, since in these two spheres (i.e., air and water) the generation and corruption of all living things take place, and these two luminous bodies are the principal causes of every generation and corruption…"
A scholastic philosopher "Robert Grosseteste introduced an account of the tide based on the mechanism of rarefaction and condensation, stimulated by the Moon's rays and their angle of incidence. He considered the Moon's action over the sea an example of the general efficient causality exerted through the universal activity of light or species." You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. More detailed read You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It is notable that the pupil of Grosseteste, Roger Bacon supported and developed theory of his teacher. Detailed - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The most intrigued issue in the diagram of f67v2 is the corner schemes. I'm sure that the right top one depicts four phases of the Moon causing 4 tides (2 high and 2 low) during the lunar month, but the rest is only field for suppositions, which I have enough.
The left low scheme of four circles in the 3-section orb may depict the four tides (2 high and 2 low) during 24 hours term (day and night). Possibly, the blue and the red part implies two visible quarters of the sky (before meridian and after it), and the green part means the tides on the other side of the Earth when the Moon is under the horizon. (Detailed - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
I'm not sure whether the schemes of the solar diagonals represent exactly solar aspects and motion or they rather mean lunar schemes which aspects are influenced and increased exactly by the Sun or due to a certain solar period/cycle. The most enigmatic for me is the left top scheme of three circles. Maybe, it relates to eclipses and means some scheme like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
![[Image: 6fb9eba09df11cf6fe634db5c5954e47--solar-...-space.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6f/b9/eb/6fb9eba09df11cf6fe634db5c5954e47--solar-lunar-vintage-space.jpg)
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Undoubtedly, it is very interesting who needed and could use such knowledge (theory) in 15th century, whether it is just meteorological observations or it implies a practical use in some field.
[Medieval writers believed the moon could do more than just cause tides – it could also affect ones health. Hildegard of Bingen, a famous abbess in 12th century Germany, explained that bloodletting was best done when the moon was waning (moving toward a new moon).] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It was generally accepted that the Moon has cool and humid nature, so it influences on all moistures in all bodies, but it is unclear to me how many scholars or physicians of that time connected effects of the Moon on the health and exactly the phenomenon of the lunar tidal waves as "rising vapours" (of the Moon?). Judging by all, it was not a wide-spread knowledge.
From the other side, the Sun and the Moon are invariable attributes of alchemical works, they may mean silver and gold, but, in the same time, they are fire and water, i. e., the "fiery liquid of the Sun" and the "aqueous moisture of the Moon", which, conjunct, make the "fiery water" – aqua ignis, aqua vitae, aqua or succus lunariae.
Unfortunately, I'm not strong in alchemy, so I can't judge whether astrological signs substitute some real chemical substances and processes, and "aqua vita" is just alcohol or they really relate to astrological/astronomical aspects of the alchemical work in traditions of the hermetic cosmology.
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![[Image: d6e627e7b0af0bca0c3308f9e10d2927--alchem...ymbols.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d6/e6/27/d6e627e7b0af0bca0c3308f9e10d2927--alchemy-tattoo-pagan-symbols.jpg)
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - davidjackson - 09-01-2018
That's a very, very interesting theory Searcher.
Obviously medieval people linked phases of the moon to tides, even if they didn't know why. Roger Bacon's theory was that the moon caused the tides in oceans, but he believed this was because the rays of light from the moon “raise vapours” from the sea, which cause the waters to move. When the moon was overheard, these rays evaporated the water, which made the tide recede.
The same theory was deemed to be responsible for the movement of much water, and even night-time dew. The belief was that when moon was waning it would draw water deeper into the soil, and when is waxing (becoming a full moon) the water was being drawn up and out of the soil.
The phase of the moon was important for agriculture, such as when to plant seeds, for this reason. An agricultural treatise from 15th century Spain states that in March, “melons, cucumbers, gourds, oats, sorghum, onions and green beans can be sown in the waning moon. Cabbage seed and radishes in the old moon. Green beans and sorghum and spelt can be sown in the new moon. Graft fig trees and other trees in waxing moon.” (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - MarcoP - 09-01-2018
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Bede's Cosmography (England, XII Century) features a diagram of the tides (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
The four circles in the corners refer to high ("malina") and low ("ledona") tides.
The four diagrams in the corners of Voynich f67v2 are fascinating, I agree!
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - -JKP- - 09-01-2018
Also in line with medieval beliefs regarding the sun and the moon was their explanation as to why the sun was hot.
Since they believed that the sun revolved around the earth, they assumed it must be moving extremely fast and thus it had to be the speed of the sun's motion that generated the heat. It never occurred to [most of] them that the sun might be generating heat on its own.
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - Koen G - 09-01-2018
Interesting indeed!
Might there be a reason to depict four different high tides and four low tides? If you imagine the orb as the earth surrounded by a green belt of water, you actually see the water rise in four high points where the heavenly bodies are above it.
Also, there are dots connecting the "peaks" to their respective heavenly body.
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - davidjackson - 09-01-2018
Daily we generally get two high and two low tides, so the four points could simply be referring to that.
More importantly, what's going on with the faces?
Three pipes have four faces, one has three. This makes 15. I can't think of anything that's a 15 cycle, unless we're talking of half a lunar month.
One of the faces is wearing what I can only describe as a judenhat, a pointy hat that Jews wore. Pointy hats in medieval western Europe tend be either feminine (with a trailing scarf) or a distinguishing feature. Jews were often forced to wear them, especially in France and Catholic territories. So pointed hats of this nature tended to have a very specific meaning.
![[Image: image.jpg?q=f67v1_2-788-944.199951171875-144-234]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f67v1_2-788-944.199951171875-144-234)
But no meaning to do with solar phases that I can think of!
The face in the green portion may also be wearing the same sort of hat, but I can't make it out. There are also a couple of faces with hairstyles.
Mind you, although the significance of the faces is important, I don't know how much importance to attribute to the actual imagery. These details will probably turn out to be some wild invention of the author whose significance is impossible to guess at without reading the text. No point drilling down into the details.
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - -JKP- - 09-01-2018
The way the heads are arranged, with lines and circles and these specific shapes, reminds me of the kabbalistic symbols for planets and constellaitons.
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - Searcher - 09-01-2018
Hi, David!
Quote:One of the faces is wearing what I can only describe as a judenhat, a pointy hat that Jews wore. Pointy hats in medieval western Europe tend be either feminine (with a trailing scarf) or a distinguishing feature. Jews were often forced to wear them, especially in France and Catholic territories. So pointed hats of this nature tended to have a very specific meaning.I couldn't ignore it, so I reply about this in the first place. I always thought about the hat of the monk from the "Fifth element"
![[Image: sub-buzz-5999-1504899979-4.jpg]](https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-09/8/15/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-01/sub-buzz-5999-1504899979-4.jpg)
If seriously, I think it can be a pileus hat (pilos):
![[Image: G59.jpg]](http://www.mikethehat.com/pics/G59.jpg)
P. S. or Phrygian cap:
![[Image: phrygian-hat.jpg]](https://anglonormanlivinghistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/phrygian-hat.jpg)
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - davidjackson - 09-01-2018
I admit it looks like one, but I can't find any reference to pileus hats being worn in medieval Europe (admittedly I'd never heard of them before you mentioned the similarity).
JKP - I'm sure we've discussed this folio's cabbalistic similarities some time back, but I can't find the thread right now.
RE: f67v2: the lunar - solar tides - Searcher - 09-01-2018
Yes, pileus hat is an You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but it still exists in Albania and is called Albanian hat. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The Albanian hat, also known by its French name—chapeau albanois, was a type of hat worn by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and primarily by Albanian mercenaries throughout Europe from the 15th to 18th century.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. described as high-crowned hat woven from ivy branches.
But they differs by their shape.
![[Image: Original-Albanian-Woolen-Handmade-Tradit...p-PLIS.jpg]](https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/192315592449_/Original-Albanian-Woolen-Handmade-Traditional-Hat-Cap-PLIS.jpg)
But, maybe, the Phrygian cap is a better candidate, after all.