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+--- Thread: Foldout85v-86r imagery explained (/thread-2250.html)
Foldout85v-86r imagery explained - Mutemandeafcat - 15-01-2018
I created a better post describing the imagery. I don't think there is any denying my explanation of the graphics, and I thought that would excite the crypto sleuths, who are always looking for word clues. I think I provide many clues, for many words.
Always interested in logical criticism, and hoping for dialogue.
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RE: Foldout85v-86r imagery explained - Mutemandeafcat - 16-01-2018
I wanted to share some things here because of feedback elsewhere.
I am sharing this information to help solve the mystery of the MS. I am not trying to get famous, I am not reaching out to publishers or magazines, I am not trying to publish this info anywhere else except my blog. I've already stated I am not an academic, and do not produce academic papers. I produce a non-monetized blog on the free version of WordPress.
I was compelled to include the polarizing Christian stuff, before I discuss how to setup a satanic alter, for a number of reasons. I will not apologize for its inclusion, but I sure am sorry if it keeps you from being open to the evidence given. And, it has no bearing on the evidence in any way.
As you may have guessed by that article, I think Kelley and Dee were involved in its "creation" and sale. How did they acquire 100 year old unused quality vellum? I have my theories, if that question must be answered. I only state that because, I have not studied the data from the dating to see if the foldout was a part of the samples taken. If not, maybe it would date to 1570? But, if it was, and I need to explain the highly unlikely acquisition on hundred year old unused vellum...I have a theory. I don't want to share anything more until I can research further, but don't have time etc.
I am not trying to convince you so much, that you cease to be open to other evidence as to what this foldout imagery may mean, I just want to convince you enough to use your superior knowledge of the language and possibly cryptography, to test some of the script in the locations I've talked about.
I know I can sound egotistical at times, but I don't mean to. Like a fool, I tend to share things at the height of my excitement when things seem so sure. Sorry, for how that is naturally off putting. And, for many who also have theories they believe in, a conclusive, arrogant sounding newcomer, must be especially irritating. Again, I apologize.
RE: Foldout85v-86r imagery explained - -JKP- - 16-01-2018
I don't think it would be difficult for Dee and Kelley/Talbot to get their hands on 100-year-old vellum. They were hanging around with nobility who were in the Emperor's favor, and nobility had resources.
I am, however, doubtful that Dee was involved. Kelley I wouldn't doubt for a minute. He was a rogue. He was ambitious. He was smart, and he did what it took to get his hands on things that could improve his reputation and pocket book. If anyone in his era saw an opportunity to create a fake, I think he'd do it in a heartbeat.
Dee was a completely different kind of person... pious, gullible, sincere, thirsty for knowledge, and a busy family man with children.
Kelley had the time and opportunity to do something like this. Dee would have difficulty doing it both time-wise and possibly also from a moral standpoint. I don't think they did it together. Dee left voluminous notes, including some he hid on the lining of a trunk that were later found, and something like the VMS was never mentioned. The other cipher/hieroglpyphic books that were mentioned have been identified by historians.
So, you might convince me with a good argument that Kelley did it (I've considered him a number of times), but you would have to give a very very very good argument to convince me that Dee had anything to do with creating a VMS fake because I would have trouble believing it.
RE: Foldout85v-86r imagery explained - Mutemandeafcat - 16-01-2018
I agree.
I've only begun reading the remaining books from the trunk and others.
Kelley is the main character but, Dee is the key.
RE: Foldout85v-86r imagery explained - -JKP- - 16-01-2018
I have seriously considered Kelley as capable of making a fake. He was ambitious and obviously lacked conscience about deceiving Dee into believing that he, as a scryer, was channeling messages from angels. He made more of an effort to get close to Rudolf II and the various higher-ups than Dee. He went back to Prague to make his fortune in alchemy after the wife-swapping incident and managed to dissociate himself from Dee and the Trebon residence. He was apparently tired of scrying and wasn't making any money at it (or not much, if Dee was paying him). Dee continued the scrying using his son Arthur.
Kelley wanted everything he could get out of life (and also got into altercations with people from time-to-time during his various "deals", both in England and in Prague).
The most important thing that stood out to me when I researched their histories is that Kelley apparently presented Rudolf II with something he had written or acquired or pretended to have written (there are basically no details about it so it's hard to know what it was) that was probably about alchemy. The emperor was not satisfied (he was an intelligent man, an intellectual). Rudolf tossed Kelley in prison (after one of his not-uncommon altercations with the various people in and around Rudolf's court) and told him to create something better.
What Kelley produced during his incarceration (which I have read, so this is my direct opinion of the contents) is basically a synopsis of various writings about alchemy at the time. It's the usual male-female/mercury/distillation themes. There is nothing in it that is of true practical value (no clear instructions on how to turn materials into valuable items like gold) and it bears no particular relationship to the VMS.
But... what was that first manuscript that Rudolf II rejected? I haven't seen it mentioned by VMS researchers, possibly because there's so little information about it or possibly because I don't go hunting around for other people's theories (if someone knows if this "alchemy" book presented from Kelley to Rudolf II has been discussed on the old mailing list or elsewhere, a link would be helpful). I'm not referring to general speculations about the book SOLD to the Emperor possibly by Dee and/or Kelley, but about the one that apparently was passed from Kelley to Rudolf (which was probably after Dee and Kelley parted company) that is said to have been about alchemy.
Could it have been the VMS? Could it have been in Kelley's possession for some time? Could it have been created by him or partly created by him (for example, if the drawings existed, might he have added the text)? We know that Kelley had an occult book when he met Dee, so perhaps he had other books as well, or picked up more along the way in Poland or in the Praque area. he was a literate man and, like Dee's calligraphic hand, had pretty good handwriting.
The text in the VMS does not resemble Enochian, but Kelley was unusually imaginative and might have thought up another system of quickly generating text that looked like cipher text. I wouldn't put it past him.
Unfortunately, due to lack of time, I have not been able to follow up this idea as much as I wanted, and true research into this particular topic would require direct access to some of the historical records in Prague, and a knowledge of the Czech language would very much help. The language of Rudolf's court was German, but many of the records of Kelly and Dee's travels are in Czech and Silesian (which apparently were more similar to each other in the 16th and 17th centuries than they are now).
I don't know if a Kelley fake is the most likely explanation for the VMS, but I think it's a plausible one.