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+--- Thread: Bifolio 33-40 (/thread-2240.html)
Bifolio 33-40 - Wladimir D - 04-01-2018
With Rene's tips 21.11. 2017 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I made a compilation of bifolio 33-40. Something strange is appening here.
1 / The continuation of the thin petals (1) on page f40r, indicates that they are drawn before the Quire binding.
2 / There are no outlines of heart-shaped (blue) petals in red rectangle.
3 / combination 1 and 2 can occur if heart-shaped petals have been, added after Quire stitching. But this contradicts the intersection of lines in the yellow circle.
4 / Is the petal (4) an analog of the heart-shape petal ? Why is its form broken?
5 / was the petal (4) painted dark blue, but the paint oxidized and looked like a black one, like on 31v.
6 / What is Blot 3?
7 / I believe that blot 2 turned out when Quire was already is bound. The hair of the brush came under bifolio 34-39 due to the fact that Quire was not tightly connected (with backlash).
8/ blue petals is an attempt to draw a volumetric four-petal “bell”.
RE: Bifolio 33-40 - Diane - 30-01-2018
Vladimir,
I see that your interest is in finding an answer to the question which Nick Pelling asked a few months ago.
Quote:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. said:
Rene: have you seen underneath the fold on the f33/f40 bifolio? Was the blue paint all the way underneath?
Not because my posts treat that point, but because folio 33v offers so much important information about stylistics (a key to correct provenancing) I'd like to let you know that the unmangled version that folio's analysis is temporarily 'pinned' now at voynich.imagery.
There's also new post - 'folio 33v - Preliminary remarks'. Next time I have a free half-day, I'd try to mend and republish the last part.
RE: Bifolio 33-40 - ChenZheChina - 27-11-2018
Hi Wladimir,
Thanks for the discoveries.
Can we say that f33-f40 and f34-f39 were in their original page order as in the first image, because blue paints from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were stuck into You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
34 --------+-------- 39
33 --------+-------- 40
However, if this is the case, I would need an answer to this question: Why the blue paints of other pedals did not transfer to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ?
For example, is it possible that ONLY these three pedals were painted blue AFTER binding?
RE: Bifolio 33-40 - Searcher - 27-11-2018
Hi!
I wrote about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on colors of bifolios in the thread Colors.
Of course, it contains a portion of subjectivity, but perhaps it will be useful and interesting for you.
RE: Bifolio 33-40 - Wladimir D - 27-11-2018
1/ Flower was drawn on a bifolio before stitching. But in the original idea it was not envisaged to draw heart-shaped objects. What I called in the title post “defective heart-shaped petal” may turn out to be a defective (Siamese / accrete) bud, which begins to bloom. The lower petal of his sepal has already opened, while the upper one is still hugging the bud. At this stage, not all narrow (1) petals were drawn.
2/ First, Quire was stitched together, and then decided to add heart-shaped bells. The right bells drew within f33v, without switching to 34r and 40r. Then additional narrow petals were added, as a result of which, the bell turned out to be higher than the narrow petal (see the intersection lines in the hot circle).
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Suppose that the blue paint was put on all the bells at the same time, and allowed the paint to dry well.
Then the manuscript gets for a short time in an environment with high humidity.
The manuscript is found and placed in a comfortable environment and allowed to dry.Then the manuscript was not used for a long time.
But the process of drying pages is not uniform. Places stitching pages still have high humidity. During long-term storage, prints are formed in areas close to the stitching points. With a tight compression of crosslinking pages and long-term storage, the diffusion process can also be considered.
RE: Bifolio 33-40 - Emma May Smith - 27-11-2018
(27-11-2018, 07:24 AM)ChenZheChina Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Wladimir,
Thanks for the discoveries.
Can we say that f33-f40 and f34-f39 were in their original page order as in the first image, because blue paints from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were stuck into You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
34 --------+-------- 39
33 --------+-------- 40
However, if this is the case, I would need an answer to this question: Why the blue paints of other pedals did not transfer to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ?
For example, is it possible that ONLY these three pedals were painted blue AFTER binding?
It's possible to see faint marks from at least two other petals on f34r.
Given that the marks were stronger nearer to the crease and fainter away from it, it's possible that something to do with the binding is causing the strength of the transfer (such as the pressure of the binding itself or some act by the binder during the binding process).
RE: Bifolio 33-40 - ChenZheChina - 28-11-2018
Thanks, Wladimir and Emma.
Combining both of your answers, I think it is possible for paints to move from one page to another page, even long after the original painting / binding. It sounds possible that, even after long time of drying, paints could still move between pages, if the manuscript went to a humid place.
So, the fact that we found blue petals on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does not mean that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were bound together from the very beginning. It just means that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were ONCE bound like this, maybe since the beginning, maybe not. Is this right?
Actually, I was trying to review and re-order the Herbal-B pages. I thought that the transferred paints from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could prove that they were in correct order, but it seems that I was wrong.