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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 209 online users. » 1 Member(s) | 205 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Google, cowcrap Latest Threads Pastebin claiming to deco... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Strategeryist 2 hours ago » Replies: 2 » Views: 58 Need advice for testing o... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Torsten 2 hours ago » Replies: 64 » Views: 2,240 Discussion of "A possible... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi 5 hours ago » Replies: 245 » Views: 122,505 Which plaintext languages... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi 7 hours ago » Replies: 42 » Views: 4,247 GPT Models Fail to Find L... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: srjskam 11 hours ago » Replies: 27 » Views: 935 Always impressive Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media Last Post: Aga Tentakulus Yesterday, 12:49 AM » Replies: 20 » Views: 5,624 Month names collection / ... Forum: Marginalia Last Post: nablator 04-07-2025, 04:01 PM » Replies: 86 » Views: 3,685 I've deciphered the Voyni... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Koen G 03-07-2025, 07:56 PM » Replies: 13 » Views: 1,076 ChatGTPrison Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Koen G 03-07-2025, 05:29 PM » Replies: 26 » Views: 391 Favorite Plant Tournament... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Koen G 02-07-2025, 02:22 PM » Replies: 0 » Views: 117

Four half-men awkwardly holding hands inside four concentric bands. Posted by: Koen G - 17-12-2018, 09:13 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (30) Diane recently pointed me towards a potentially relevant manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  The page I linked above shows a diagram which struck me as familiar, similar to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . It is best seen in the full version, but I'll include an image:   Naamloos-3.jpg (Size: 316.85 KB / Downloads: 231) In the Madrid MS, all four men are facing front and holding hands in a strange way. There is also no text in the diagram itself. But I found the similarities with the VM circle too great to ignore. In both diagrams there are four concentric bands surrounding the four men. The centre is split in four (with lines or text) assigning each man his quarter segment. There's also divisions in the bands, although in the VM these are fewer. Likely someone with greater knowledge and skills than mine will be able to tell us what exactly this diagram represents (there's an accompanying text in the MS). I vaguely recall that something like this may have been posted before but wasn't able to find it. Also, on the left page there's a few more elements that recall of the VM drawings. These are more likely to be coincidences, but I will include them anyway. I feel much more confident about the relevance of the four-men diagram, but since these elements are on the page right next to it they may be worth noting.   Naamloos-10.jpg (Size: 115.34 KB / Downloads: 224)   Rotating decoration on gallows f42v Posted by: bi3mw - 14-12-2018, 02:28 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (42) The initial gallows on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a striking decoration. The decoration of the letter "p" looks very similar here, but goes straight down: Call Number: HM 932 Folio: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Colophon: Ricardus Franciscus Scripsit Anno domini 1447. On folio 42v, a counterclockwise rotation is performed. This is not possible otherwise because of the line spacing. Does anyone know other examples?   A single hand, several handwritings Posted by: MarcoP - 13-12-2018, 11:22 AM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography - Replies (26) Five of these ten fragments were written by a single scribe. The other five were written by different people. I will post details in a few days, in case someone wants to have an unbiased look at the scripts. The sources were discussed on this forum, so cheating is fairly easy, if one feels so inclined   RND900.jpg (Size: 235.27 KB / Downloads: 344)   Events that may have obscured manuscript history Posted by: -JKP- - 13-12-2018, 12:46 AM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (5) Sometimes interesting articles like this come up, that reveal how a manuscript's provenance can be obscured by unusual events (the VMS certainly qualifies in this category, given that Voynich originally hid where he procured the VMS). Here is a thread to post articles of this kind, and one to start it off... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Unfortunately, this also happens: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Sometimes the mysteries are solved (or partly solved): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Medieval Manuscripts with Foldouts Posted by: -JKP- - 04-12-2018, 10:56 PM - Forum: Physical material - Replies (8) A thread for examples of foldout folios from c. 1500 and earlier. Here is one from c. mid-1400s, southern Germany (possibly Augsburg), a prognostication manuscript on vellum with several foldout pages: Christie's Lot 1550, 2014: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Some points of interest: Clearly designed for portability (115 x 85mm), a little smaller than the VMS. Possibly created for someone who earned money as a fortune-teller? Zodiac symbols are within roundels but are the more traditional style (e.g., nude male Gemini twins). Connection between health, hygiene, and astrology. Note that the charts are in Roman numerals, so it might be on the earlier rather than the later side of c. 1450. There is a text with similar subjects: Edinburgh University Library, D.b.V.19 (also German).   Are Foldouts Always Shorter to Left but Longer to Right? Posted by: ChenZheChina - 29-11-2018, 08:33 AM - Forum: Physical material - Replies (24) I checked René Zandbergen’s website about quire schemata, and found that all foldouts are bound in a way that their left is shorter while their right is longer. Images are downloaded from René’s website.   schema09.gif (Size: 3.85 KB / Downloads: 307) Quire 9: 2-page wide to the left, 3.5-page wide to the right   schema10.gif (Size: 3.02 KB / Downloads: 304) Quire 10: 1-page wide to the left, 2.5-page wide to the right   schema11.gif (Size: 3.22 KB / Downloads: 301) Quire 11: 1-page wide to the left, 3.5-page wide to the right   schema14.gif (Size: 4.86 KB / Downloads: 298) Quire 14: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page wide to the right   schema15.gif (Size: 4.29 KB / Downloads: 305) Quire 15: 1-page wide to the left, 2.5-page or 2-page wide to the right   schema17.gif (Size: 3.35 KB / Downloads: 305) Quire 17: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page wide to the right   schema19.gif (Size: 4.23 KB / Downloads: 304) Quire 19: 1-page wide to the left, 2-page or 2.5-page wide to the right So here’s my question: Is this phenomenon just a coincidence, or a common practice at that time? In other words, is it possible for the original author to design pages that to be bound in a way where left foldout is longer than right foldout? I want to ask this question, because I am trying to review and re-order Herbal-B pages. When I was examining the foldout f94-f95, I wondered that if I could bind between what is now referred as f95v1 and f95v2, a.k.a. f95r1 and f95r2, like this:   Untitled.jpg (Size: 125.72 KB / Downloads: 299)   Divine cloud + tent? Posted by: Koen G - 21-11-2018, 09:29 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (7) There are a few instances in the manuscript where cloud bands appear to be combined with what looks like tent parts (sectioned roof + finials). I wonder whether this might bear some relation to Exodus 40, wherein a tent is set up for the Tabernacle and the Lord descends upon the tent in the shape of a cloud. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I got this idea when I came across this image in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., depicting a tent upon which the Lord-as-cloud has descended. The manuscripts employs a different style of drawing clouds, but if the cloud band were used, it might look a lot like some of the VM images.   Naamloos-2.jpg (Size: 277.11 KB / Downloads: 190) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. "was the portable earthly dwelling place of Yahweh among the children of Israel from the time of the Exodus from Egypt through the conquering of the land of Canaan." This means that for an audience familiar with this story and the imagery, the invocation of the Tabernacle might signify a specific place, region or route.  That's all I have so far.   People in barrels Posted by: -JKP- - 16-11-2018, 09:01 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (14) I was going to respond to Koen's barrrel image on the "rings" thread but realized this probably needs its own thread... Diogenes is traditionally shown in a barrel, sometimes upright: Morgan MS M.126 (England, c. 1470 but notice that the text and illustrations are in the French/Flanders style) Or sometimes on its side, like a cave. These two, in which the barrel is sideways are from French manuscripts: Alexander in a glass barrel (medieval submarine): British Library Royal MS 20 B (France, c. 1420) Bathing barrels (there are many of these, and they are always upright, so I'll post just one): Morgan MS M.312 Book of Hours, use of Rouen, c. 1470s Barrels for food and tools: There are also many barrels associated with milking cows and goats, distillation and fermentation, and they are pretty much always upright, so I'll post just one: The ones that are most consistently sideways are Alexander's barrel and Diogenes's barrrel.   Marginalia f111r Posted by: Wladimir D - 12-11-2018, 07:27 PM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (4) At the top of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. page, there is certainly an inscription (partially corrupted). At first glance, the first letter in the red box is n (Latin). The second letter is U / V. However, it cannot be excluded that the first character is X (10 is Roman). X is often written incessantly without taking the pen from the paper, with the formation of a loop on the right. The tail (red circle) can be directed both to the right, and down, or to the left. But I met (but unfortunately did not copy) when the loop can form at the bottom (my drawing is dots). JKP, do you have a similar example in the collection? Thereat the inscription in the red square is similar to the Roman number 17. If,  in the green square written the number 18, then can have serious consequences for the VMS study.[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]   МАРГИНАЛИЯ 111R.JPG (Size: 38.59 KB / Downloads: 153) [/font]   History of the study Posted by: Diane - 11-11-2018, 08:02 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (25) Could the moderators consider a separate thread devoted to sources for the history of Voynich studies?  Say... 1912- 2012?   For example,  At the moment I have two questions which relate to past writings: 1). Anyone know what has happened to Brigadier Tiltman's paper about the manuscript. (  used to be at the NSA website as a pdf).    2) I'm trying to find the point where doubt was first cast on Wilfrid's description of the text as in cipher.   Following through  Jim Reeds' Bibliography (here),  it looks to me as if either Tiltman and Friedman began to have doubts very late in their involvement (though Nick Pelling disputes my reading of that passage), or that perhaps Jorge Stolfi's linguistic and statistical analysis really broke the model of beliefs till then. Access to primary sources and documents is all that's needed for a thread about the study's history.  A cut-off at 2012 would be neat, and would make clear the line between the history of the study and   current thinking.  Thanks. First Previous Next Last