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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 442 online users. » 3 Member(s) | 436 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Google, Jorge_Stolfi, voynichrose Latest Threads A brief summary of Voynic... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Bluetoes101 2 hours ago » Replies: 19 » Views: 14,430 Derek Vogt Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: ReneZ 3 hours ago » Replies: 15 » Views: 370 Need advice for testing o... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: ReneZ 3 hours ago » Replies: 15 » Views: 686 Which plaintext languages... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: nablator Yesterday, 08:18 AM » Replies: 39 » Views: 3,938 [Poll] What *are* vords? Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Mauro 30-06-2025, 09:16 PM » Replies: 11 » Views: 361 A brief summary of Voynic... Forum: Curated threads Last Post: Koen G 30-06-2025, 06:44 PM » Replies: 1 » Views: 14,313 ChatGTPrison Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Koen G 30-06-2025, 03:13 PM » Replies: 0 » Views: 116 How multi-character subst... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: quimqu 29-06-2025, 09:37 PM » Replies: 23 » Views: 942 Upcoming Voynich program ... Forum: News Last Post: Aga Tentakulus 29-06-2025, 06:19 PM » Replies: 15 » Views: 1,838 A depiction of a manticor... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Rafal 29-06-2025, 12:25 PM » Replies: 1 » Views: 156

Parchment/Vellum/Skin Details Posted by: -JKP- - 04-01-2019, 05:59 PM - Forum: Physical material - No Replies This is an older link, but it's possible people haven't seen it, so here is a British Library link with enlarged textures of various animal skins: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. And a more technical article on Dead Sea Scroll materials: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Most certain plant ID's? Posted by: Koen G - 30-12-2018, 05:52 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (95) Following the water lily thread, I wondered: which plants in the VM can be identified with an above average degree of certainty and consensus? Note that I don't say complete certainty and consensus since both are unlikely. Also, I don't mean specific subspecies (that's not the right question to ask) just general plant type. Let's say as specific as possible without straying too far into "maybe" territory.  See Marco's post You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for the origins of some additions. Edited list so far (proposals where there appears to be especially great agreement are in bold): f1v Belladonna, Deadly nightshade f2r Centaurea (subspecies uncertain: knapweed, cornflower...) f2v Water lily f5r paris quadrifolia  f6v Ricinus (castor oil plant)  f9v Viola  f16r Cannabis  f17v tamus (dioscorea) f18r Calendula / Mountain aster  f18v Malva (JKP) f21r Polygonum Aviculare, a Herniaria species or similar plant. The drawing is broadly considered lifelike, but there are too many plants that look similar. See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. f23r veronica  f25v plantago  f26r Sedum telephium (JKP) f32r Prunella  f35v Oak (but the climbing plant remains unclear)  f43v Teasel (right) f49r Cuscuta (JKP)  f65v chamomile    [split] f2v plant ID Posted by: bi3mw - 26-12-2018, 02:18 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (48) Thanks @JKP, that was fast. The leaf shape is similar to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the VMS (although the leaf is shown the other way round). Another name for Newfare is nenufar (Seeblomen). But they are presented differently in other manuscripts. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - GW 12270,  Latin herbal with German synonyms, Passau, Anonym, Herbarius, Patavie, 1485,  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Edit: Another spelling for Nenufar is Nenuphar. An older spelling for Seeblome is sêbluome (Mhd).   The first palaeographers to assert the Ms is in a humanist script? Posted by: Beatrice - 25-12-2018, 08:20 PM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography - Replies (24) Hello everyone I am new here and I would like to ask you  who were the first palaeographers to assert that the Ms is written in a humanist script. Does any member from this forum know something about that? Is there any paper about it? I have been re-reading An Elegant Enigma by Mary D'Imperio as well as  Zandbergen's site. But I have not found  any palaeographer's name or an expert on Historiography and its techniques. Only Helmut Lehmann-Haupt, Consultant to H.P. Kraus, suggested that "[...] palaeographically speaking, Italy is a likely country of origin" (p.7)   Nothing else.  Thanks.   Implications of the continuity of Currier "languages" Posted by: MarcoP - 20-12-2018, 10:46 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (21) Several researchers have pointed out that the features underlying Currier's A and B "languages" do not form two separated sets, but spread over a continuous range. For instance, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represents pages on the basis of word frequencies: Donald used Principal Component Analysis (PCA) to reduce the number of dimensions from the long raw vectors to plottable 2d points.   curr1.jpg (Size: 85.9 KB / Downloads: 362) Currier A (green), Currier B (red), or uncertain (black). [I have trimmed the image and made it more contrasted] Similar results are presented by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The continuity between the two "languages" appears both in character-based and word-based analyses (this plot is by Sarah Goslee).   voynich1-charABcode.png (Size: 26.14 KB / Downloads: 363) Researchers have drawn different conclusions from this evidence: Donald Fisk Wrote:...Prescott Currier reported in Papers on the Voynich Manuscript that the text is in two separate languages or dialects, now commonly referred to as Currier A and Currier B. It will be shown here that this distinction is somewhat fuzzy. There are differences (see "A Principal Component Analysis of the Voynich Manuscript Words"), but these can be explained more simply by differences in the text's subject matter. Rene Zandbergen Wrote:When Currier identified his languages A and B, he did this on the basis of the different statistics of the initial herbal pages in the MS [...]. It is clear that these have distinct properties - the clouds do not overlap. He also checked the other pages, and noted more variations, but his criteria for distinguishing the languages did not allow him to see that the overall statistics demonstrate that there is a continuum, and the other (not herbal) pages actually 'bridge the gap'. This does not demonstrate that the text is meaningful, or that the text variations are caused by different subject matter (as suggested in by Montemurro and Zanette). If that were the case, the difference between herbal A and herbal B should not exist. The cause of the (statistical) language variation is still unexplained. As always, things are puzzling. I understand that both points of view have their value. Let's speculate What are the implications of these findings? What the reasons for the observed phenomena can be? Four half-men awkwardly holding hands inside four concentric bands. Posted by: Koen G - 17-12-2018, 09:13 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (30) Diane recently pointed me towards a potentially relevant manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  The page I linked above shows a diagram which struck me as familiar, similar to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . It is best seen in the full version, but I'll include an image:   Naamloos-3.jpg (Size: 316.85 KB / Downloads: 231) In the Madrid MS, all four men are facing front and holding hands in a strange way. There is also no text in the diagram itself. But I found the similarities with the VM circle too great to ignore. In both diagrams there are four concentric bands surrounding the four men. The centre is split in four (with lines or text) assigning each man his quarter segment. There's also divisions in the bands, although in the VM these are fewer. Likely someone with greater knowledge and skills than mine will be able to tell us what exactly this diagram represents (there's an accompanying text in the MS). I vaguely recall that something like this may have been posted before but wasn't able to find it. Also, on the left page there's a few more elements that recall of the VM drawings. These are more likely to be coincidences, but I will include them anyway. I feel much more confident about the relevance of the four-men diagram, but since these elements are on the page right next to it they may be worth noting.   Naamloos-10.jpg (Size: 115.34 KB / Downloads: 224)   Rotating decoration on gallows f42v Posted by: bi3mw - 14-12-2018, 02:28 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (42) The initial gallows on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a striking decoration. The decoration of the letter "p" looks very similar here, but goes straight down: Call Number: HM 932 Folio: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Colophon: Ricardus Franciscus Scripsit Anno domini 1447. On folio 42v, a counterclockwise rotation is performed. This is not possible otherwise because of the line spacing. Does anyone know other examples?   A single hand, several handwritings Posted by: MarcoP - 13-12-2018, 11:22 AM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography - Replies (26) Five of these ten fragments were written by a single scribe. The other five were written by different people. I will post details in a few days, in case someone wants to have an unbiased look at the scripts. The sources were discussed on this forum, so cheating is fairly easy, if one feels so inclined   RND900.jpg (Size: 235.27 KB / Downloads: 344)   Events that may have obscured manuscript history Posted by: -JKP- - 13-12-2018, 12:46 AM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (5) Sometimes interesting articles like this come up, that reveal how a manuscript's provenance can be obscured by unusual events (the VMS certainly qualifies in this category, given that Voynich originally hid where he procured the VMS). Here is a thread to post articles of this kind, and one to start it off... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Unfortunately, this also happens: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Sometimes the mysteries are solved (or partly solved): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Medieval Manuscripts with Foldouts Posted by: -JKP- - 04-12-2018, 10:56 PM - Forum: Physical material - Replies (8) A thread for examples of foldout folios from c. 1500 and earlier. Here is one from c. mid-1400s, southern Germany (possibly Augsburg), a prognostication manuscript on vellum with several foldout pages: Christie's Lot 1550, 2014: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Some points of interest: Clearly designed for portability (115 x 85mm), a little smaller than the VMS. Possibly created for someone who earned money as a fortune-teller? Zodiac symbols are within roundels but are the more traditional style (e.g., nude male Gemini twins). Connection between health, hygiene, and astrology. Note that the charts are in Roman numerals, so it might be on the earlier rather than the later side of c. 1450. There is a text with similar subjects: Edinburgh University Library, D.b.V.19 (also German). First Previous Next Last