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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 770 online users. » 2 Member(s) | 762 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Facebook, Google, Yandex Latest Threads I am not convinced by the... Forum: Provenance & history Last Post: rikforto 4 hours ago » Replies: 22 » Views: 724 15thc perception on swall... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Koen G 7 hours ago » Replies: 602 » Views: 335,155 No text, but a visual cod... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: ololololo 7 hours ago » Replies: 1,869 » Views: 1,306,021 Voynichese is a numeric c... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: ololololo 7 hours ago » Replies: 196 » Views: 20,726 New members: trouble regi... Forum: News Last Post: Koen G 7 hours ago » Replies: 0 » Views: 61 [split] Measure uncertain... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Grove 9 hours ago » Replies: 7 » Views: 247 Voynich is encrypted ENOC... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Radim Dobeš 9 hours ago » Replies: 361 » Views: 52,371 The 'Chinese' Theory: Fo... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Linda 9 hours ago » Replies: 799 » Views: 212,445 A Glyph Is Not a Letter, ... Forum: News Last Post: rikforto Yesterday, 11:22 AM » Replies: 22 » Views: 1,261 Voynich Reconsidered Forum: News Last Post: dfs346 22-08-2026, 08:47 PM » Replies: 151 » Views: 108,733

Did the scribes copy the letters correctly? Posted by: ololololo - 19-06-2026, 11:42 AM - Forum: Theories & Solutions - Replies (18) I myself am not a supporter of the hypothesis that scribes were hired to write the manuscript, who did not understand a single word in it, however, if we accept it, then the question arises - did the scribes copy the letters correctly? Did the writing look like this from the beginning? I can imagine it like this: I'm a scribe, and I've been hired by a certain society to transcribe their scribbles onto parchment. I don't understand what they've written, and the letters are unfamiliar to me, but I'm tasked with filling 100 pages with them. I must copy it carefully, without changing anything or trying to add anything of my own.  To speed up this process, I can practice writing these letters and adapt them to make them easier to write with a stylus. I'm not a scribe anymore. Now, considering the time when I was a scribe, let's take a look at the letters of the Voynichese alphabet. As you can see, all the letters are written very quickly when writing with a pen, and only require a few strokes. Some of the letters have a simple loop shape (such as m or a gallows). Prescott Carrier also noted that almost all symbols contain a base in the form of i or e. There is also a CLS study based on the same feature (link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).  The fact that the alphabet was written by people who didn't understand it at all makes me think that it was adapted.  I can assume that if this is the case, the original form of the Voynich alphabet would look something like this:     Or maybe it was more complicated in appearance, and the scribes simplified it, reducing it to a couple of lines and loops. There may also be some misidentifications of letters by the scribe, regarding the letters a, o, r (similar in shape to r-rotunda - ꝛ) and q (which the scribe mistook for 4). What do you think?   EVA-l ( 'e' ) and Splitting Words Posted by: dashstofsk - 19-06-2026, 10:47 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (1) Here is something interesting. I am not sure whether it has been mentioned and debated before. Take words that have an  l mid-word and split them at the  l.  The segments will be seen themselves to be common words. The tables below show the frequencies of these segments together with their frequency as separate words. For instance, the word  ol occurs 723 times and a further 894 words start   ol.  193 words end  ldy and the word  dy  occurs 369 times. So either  l mid-word indicates that it is the last character of a word and that the writer has joined it with the following word, or else the word has been artificially constructed to be formed of two common and independent words.     List of the initial segments.     List of the final segments.   Barbavara Ciphers Posted by: Mark Knowles - 18-06-2026, 01:50 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (25) Francesco I Barbavara's cipher key in the Archivio di Stato di Mantova His 6 nephews, the brothers-> Marcolino Barbavara's enciphered letters in the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in the Library of Paris Francesco II Barbavara intercepted letter referring to ciphers that he sent in the Archivio di Stato di Firenze Bishop Giovanni Barbavara's cipher key in the Archivio Diocesano di Tortona Abbot Antonio Barbavara who I associated with the authorship of the Voynich manuscript on the basis of a cartographic theory long before I knew of any connection of his family to cryptography Nicolino Barbavara, Mayor of Vercelli(No known surviving ciphers) Pietro Barbavara, Apostolic Protonotary(No known surviving ciphers) Son of Marcolino-> Scipione Barbavara's cipher key in the Tranchedino Cipher Ledger in the Austrian Library in Vienna --- I am most focused now in locating ciphers written by Francesco II Barbavara. Unfortunately, I haven't yet seen any surviving document in cipher or not in cipher written by Abbot Antonio. Although, I know a certain amount about him from various sources including his great interest in and collection of varieties of plants as the plaque in the Abbey where he was Abbot states. ---- Surviving evidence shows that the chancellery of Milan was responsible for producing the most advanced and innovative ciphers in the world at the time from which the Voynich manuscript was dated. See, in particular, the 1424 intercepted Milanese enciphered letters in the Archivio di Stato di Firenze. And the Barbavara family were at the centre of Milanese cryptography. Francesco I Barbavara is credited with having created the first modern foreign office under Duke of Milan, Gian Galeazzo Visconti. Francesco II Barbavara was Ducal Secretary and Head of the chancellery of Duke of Milan, Filippo Maria Visconti. Marcolino Barbavara was a prominent diplomat in the government of Filippo Maria Visconti.   Voynich's anatomy Posted by: ololololo - 17-06-2026, 11:10 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (107) I thought about it for a long time, and then decided to post it. I also don't know if this has ever been considered. One of my assumptions about the manuscript was that the balneological section contained schematic drawings of human organs. This sounds logical for a medieval medical book. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any suitable 15th-century books for comparison, so we'll be comparing them directly with human organs. Here are my identifications: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - The long, stretching channel, as well as the patterns on top, made me think that we were looking at a pharynx. The small basin on the left side of the channel is shaped like a tongue, and if this is the case, then the mouth is depicted at the top.     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - The drawing on the left is difficult to identify, but the shape of the lake below is too much like a brain, which means that the top may depict the nasal cavity or the inner ear.      You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - From the objects depicted here, I can say with greater certainty that there is at least a heart depicted. From this, the figure on top could be the upper vertebra or sternum. The lower figures could also be bones, but I assume they are something else. I cannot say what the person on the right is doing or what it means.     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - the intestine is accurately depicted here. What is drawn on top resembles the fallopian tubes. The nymph with two tubes may represent the pancreas (what is labeled as oleoedar resembles the pancreas in shape) or the clitoris (the fallopian tubes may hint at this).     f78r-f79r - The digestive system as a whole. On f78r, the upper figures, specifically the "caps", are very similar to the upper figure on f75r. If the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. figure on the top represents a mouth, then the tubes leading to the water bodies originate from the mouth. But as I see it, these illustrations depict not the organs (in this case, we would have two stomachs), but the process of digestion itself. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - In my opinion, the two lakes connected at the sides represent the lungs. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - perhaps the stomach is depicted here. This tank looks very similar to the f78v. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - phallus and testicles.     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - the two small lakes look like kidneys. You can see that the organs are mostly described from top to bottom, starting from the head (mouth, throat, brain) and ending with the groin (phallus, fallopian tubes). It is possible that the unidentified legs represent organs from the same levels, or they may represent arms or legs. Nymphs can also represent vitality (which explains why they fill cavities, for example).   Geographical analysis of Rosettes Posted by: ololololo - 17-06-2026, 02:56 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (7) I believe that it is more valuable to study the unknown than to try to compare it with the known. I conducted this research on my own, which means I may be wrong or may know something. In general, I tried to study the Rosettes from the manuscript as a map of some geographical object. My goal was to understand what could be depicted if it were a map. Here's what happened:     Explanations: 1). Despite the fact that the top-left rosette looks like the central rosette, it is not an island. According to the island's logic, there should be a bridge on the right side to connect it to the top rosette, but we only see it from the bottom. There is a yellow area around the "core" of this rosette, which is not present on the island. There's something that looks like a square on the right, and a rock on top, which leads me to believe that the rosette is "grounded" and directly connected to the upper rosette. In summary, I decided that the logical meaning for this Rosette is the designation of a mountain. 2). Temples are similar structures. They are called temples because of their resemblance (lines resembling columns extend from the corners of these "stars"). One might assume that the upper and lower temples are like poles or "Wind Centers," but then one wonders why the left rosette looks like them. It seems to me that similar shapes have similar meanings. In my opinion, these may not be temples, but they are important sites for the city. 3). Lake/Source - of course, it's actually challenging to determine what this is in terms of geography, but it's possible that it's a lake or perhaps multiple lakes. Firstly, the spotted pattern resembles lakes from a bird's-eye view. Secondly, the abundance of blue color and the intricate shapes below make sense in this context. It is also possible that the "cloud" in the center is a lake, and the shapes below are canals. 4). Strait and Waterway - if you look at their "scales", you won't immediately know what the pattern means. But look at the Bridge, and you might notice that there's a shoreline, a "rise in the ground," and something like water. Based on this difference, we can assume that the paths on the right-hand rosettes are simply water or waterways. This fits in with the fact that the Right Rosette represents the Sea - no one would build a bridge to the sea. 5). The sea is because the pattern of this Rosette is different from others in that it has sea colors and no architecture. Notice that fish tails emerge from the central flower, there's nothing else there. The available data is best explained by the fact that this is a sea. But why not the lake? If this is a lake, it's unclear where we should place the Central Island, and the overall appearance of the city seems strange. 6). Main Cities - Outlets that are full of urban architecture (the upper one has castles, and the lower one has something like palaces).  My assumptions: 1). The scale of this map is two cities at most. It doesn't look like much more.  2). The map is obviously not a navigation map, but an schematic one. 3). The city looks quite typical, and there are no special attractions. 4). The map doesn't have an exact proportion, and it doesn't strive for it. 5). The map has a certain horizontal symmetry: City opposite City, Temple opposite Temple, natural object opposite natural object? (well, it could be a game of opposites - mountain-lake). 6). The map looks more figurative than geographical. One explanation for this is an attempt to distort the map beyond recognition. 7). The text around the Rosettes has a beginning (represented by a notch), so I believe that the text is encoded here, rather than any words or numbers. Roughly, the proposed city would look like this (sorry, I can't draw cities in Paint):     The river appeared because you can also see waves to the left of the Bridge, and the Island and Sea rosettes give a river when translated into a readable map. Of course, because of the presence of the tower at the Lakes, it can be assumed that these are two different cities on the two banks of the river, but they share a common architecture (i.e., both have ghibelline crenellations) and a common structure (the city and the "temple"), which leads me to believe that they are one city built on the river. I might be wrong, and if I am, please tell me!   Marginalia in Voynichese? Posted by: ololololo - 16-06-2026, 09:58 PM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (5) While researching the balneology section, I noticed that some words were noticeably different from others on the same page, as if they had been added by someone else who knew Voynichese. Of course, this isn't exactly marginal, but I'm putting it here.      The word kchedykary is written in a handwriting style similar to the rest of the section, but the lines are thin and about the same width, which is unusual for pen writing but resembles fountain pen writing. You can also notice that it is written above the line, rather than starting the line. The letter d is also highlighted - it is written without jerks and resembles an eight too much. On the same page, you can see the words between the pipe and the pond with the nymphs. They don't fit into the lines and are written in the same way as kchedykary (clearly not with a pen).     Another example can be found on f75v.     The top words on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are also slightly different from the main text.     Maybe You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     And, finally, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     Such "foreign signatures" are not regular, i.e., there are also signature words written with a pen in the section. However, these inscriptions have a special feature: as you can see, they are often written inside illustrations. Maybe I'm wrong, and this is just a hallucination, but it seemed strange to me. What do you think or know about it?   New assessment on folio 116v - my study Posted by: monisusa - 16-06-2026, 07:03 PM - Forum: Marginalia - No Replies Hello everyone, My name is Monika Pal-Stumpp, I live in southern Germany and mostly have been a silent reader. I have been studying the Voynich-Manuscript for several years. Today I am happy to share a new interpretation of the text from folio 116v. It became apparent that the difficult-to-read text, which was often considered "chaotic" does in fact form a plausible and consistent message. In my study, I examine paleografic characteristics, dialectal aspects and the numerous Latin abbreviations. Moreover, I take a close look at the ciphered words in "Voynichese".These elements offer intriguing clues about the content, the region where this text may have originated and about the author's possible linguistic background.  I hope you enjoy reading it and look forward to your comments.  The study is available on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Atoms and elements of the Voynichese alphabet Posted by: Stefan Wirtz_2 - 15-06-2026, 04:02 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (23) Voynich texts still spark off discussions about their structure, especially about the length of Vords, the understanding of gaps and possible sentences or chapters. At three occasions, Voynichese characters appear as lined-up, but single symbols. We don‘t know the purpose of these line-ups. These sources are the second-outer ring of folio 57v, the second leading column of 66r, and the leading column of 76r. Whatever the purpose of those lines of singled symbols are, they obviously are used for some stand-alone function here. A bit surprising, "air" appears here between the line of single letters; most people consider this as a combination of up to 3 different Voynichese characters a, i and r,  but we have to face here the fact of "air" being some "atomistic", stand-alone sign. It appears also (very rarely) in the main text. Therefore, it is set together with the single characters and some combinations of them in this alphabet table: Some of the most frequent characters are not used in 57,66, and 76, but can be found at various positions in main text, so we can assume for them "having a life on their own" -- these are framed in blue colour. Most people think of cFe, cPe, cTe, cKe, ee, eee, ii, iN, ir, iiN, iir also being combined characters = red framed here. But at least cTe appears stand-alone or in an end position in text (also very rare), so that might be an element with it's own function as well: (middle line, mid position) (lowest Vord) At position 9 in the image of "4x17 sequences" is clearly made a difference between f (first 2 sequences) and p (last 2 sequences); this was discussed already, we have to live with the fact that they are not completely identical. But for identification of stand-alone letters this doesn't matter here. But I would see the strange < at position 16 just as a bit harsh variant of c  like in the other 3 sequences, not some new combination or symbol. So, in total the table shows 28 single characters, 7 rather clear combinations and 4 combinations with (maybe optional) an own function. Voynichese Alphabet may sum up to 39 letters; even if we take out the 6 rarest symbols, which appear nearly nowhere else in the script anymore, it is still a number or 33 characters available and in (more or less) use. But can there be even more? I did not the variants of "d" here, like 8, D, j or such: those things appear to me like variations of style & scribe, not so much as own symbols. Here is some kind of "8" party happening: Looks like all be done by the same scribe, but he did not care too much for exact writing of "8". I wouldn't enhance an alphabet by these.   Seasonal prefix clustering in Voynich zodiac nymph labels — a systematic observation Posted by: UrexEregerRep - 14-06-2026, 10:45 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (10) Disclosure: This analysis was conducted with the assistance of Claude (Anthropic AI) for data processing. All source data is taken directly from the Voynich Information Browser EVA transcriptions (Stolfi, Takahashi, Grove) and is independently verifiable. Background Zandbergen and Pelling have noted that zodiac nymph labels disproportionately start with EVA ‘ok’ or ‘ot’. What has not been systematically examined, to my knowledge, is whether this distribution varies between individual zodiac sections — and whether that variation forms clusters. Method I extracted all nymph labels (S1 and S2 units) from every surviving zodiac folio using EVA transcriptions from VIB. For each folio I identified the dominant opening prefix. No interpretation was applied — purely mechanical counting from raw transcription data. Results by section: Winter-spring cluster (dominant: ot-/ok-, y- absent or rare): • f70v2 — Pisces — ot-/ok- • f70v1+f71r — Double goat — ot-/ok- • f71v+f72r1 — Double bull — ot-/op-/ch- Summer-autumn cluster (dominant: ol-/or-/oe-, y- moderate): • f72r2 — Couple/Gemini — ok-/ot- • f72r3 — Two crabs — ol-/or-/y- • f72v2 — Virgo — oe-/ok- • f72v1 — Libra — ok-/oe- • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. — Lizard/Scorpio — ot-/ok- Anomaly (y-/yk- dominant — very high frequency): • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. — Crossbowman/Sagittarius — yk-/y- Three observable clusters: Winter-spring block (Pisces, double goat, double bull): stable ot-/ok- dominance, y-/yk- absent or near-zero. Summer-autumn block (two crabs, Virgo, Libra): shift toward ol-/or- and distinctive oe- prefix largely absent elsewhere. Outlier — Crossbowman (f73v): dramatic spike in yk-/y- prefixes. Approximately half of all nymph labels begin with y- or yk-. This is the final section before the cut folio f74, after which the manuscript transitions to a completely different section (balneological). This position may be structurally significant. Notes on zodiac imagery The images do not always correspond to standard zodiac symbols. The central animal on f70v1 is described by Stolfi as “a beardless goat”, not a ram. The scorpion appears as a lizard, the lion as a one-fanged tiger. Both Taurus sections show an animal resembling an antelope. The twins are a man and woman holding hands. This suggests the author either followed a non-standard tradition or used familiar zodiac imagery as a framework for different content. Extension to f68 astronomical folios f68r1 (“Sun over Moon”, 29 stars) contains a mixed distribution of all prefix types identified in the zodiac, plus a unique oc-/och- cluster (6 of 29 stars: chocphy, cphocthy, ockhy, ocphy, octhey, odchecthy) absent from the zodiac section. This is consistent with f68r1 functioning as a general astronomical reference. f68r3 (“The Pleiades”) contains the label dcholday featuring the root ‘chol’ which dominates the winter cluster. The Pleiades are in Taurus, which belongs to our winter-spring ot-/ok- cluster. This internal consistency is notable. Open questions 1. Does the prefix variation reflect different scribal hands (Currier A/B) or semantic clustering by section? 2. What distinguishes the 6 oc-/och- stars on f68r1 visually or positionally? 3. Is the Crossbowman anomaly (yk-/y- spike) random or structural — a cycle-end marker? 4. If ol-/or- in the two-crabs section encodes Arabic “Al-” star name prefix (as Pelling suggested for ok-/ot-) — what does ol- encode differently from ot-? Conclusion Nymph labels in the zodiac section statistically differ between individual sections. Three prefix clusters are distinguishable. No decipherment claims are made. All observations are independently verifiable from VIB raw data. Raw label data available on request.   What would you NOT LIKE to be the Voynich Manuscripts? Posted by: Jimmy123 - 13-06-2026, 07:52 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions - Replies (26) I'm sorry, I am not very good with English. But... I wonder, everybody has a theory about the Voynich Manuscript, there are so many as grains of salt. But what is your anti-theory? What is it that CANNOT be the Voynich Manuscript? Do you think it is impossible that some theory is correct? Do you think that one theory is impossible? 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