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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 490 online users. » 5 Member(s) | 480 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Google, Yandex, davidma, eggyk, kckluge Latest Threads The claimed Voynich page Forum: Imagery Last Post: eggyk 19 minutes ago » Replies: 75 » Views: 12,731 Voynich Zoom CFP Forum: News Last Post: hermesj 19 minutes ago » Replies: 21 » Views: 2,681 Getting close to a source... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Koen G 21 minutes ago » Replies: 211 » Views: 66,935 Can we go further? Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: ReneZ 27 minutes ago » Replies: 13 » Views: 373 The Book Switch Theory Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi 46 minutes ago » Replies: 120 » Views: 6,025 Author of The voynich's i... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: oeesordy 8 hours ago » Replies: 2 » Views: 220 Elephant in the Room Solu... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: R. Sale Yesterday, 11:15 PM » Replies: 250 » Views: 25,668 Decipherment of the Voyni... Forum: The Slop Bucket Last Post: tavie Yesterday, 10:14 PM » Replies: 3 » Views: 117 help? peer review Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Onix_slate Yesterday, 07:55 PM » Replies: 22 » Views: 709 [split] Volvelles or Disk... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: tavie Yesterday, 05:02 PM » Replies: 68 » Views: 5,470

Another mention of "pox" in a 15th century manuscript Posted by: JustAnotherTheory - 27-01-2026, 08:20 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (5) I wasn't sure which forum to post this in, so I guess this one will do. Basically I found another instance of "pox" describing a billygoat/male buck, from a 15th century Tyrolian manuscript. It's "interesting" in the sense that we have "poxleber" written on the folio f116v, and up to now we found only 2 instances of this word in contemporary written literature with this exact grammar (a play from Hans Sachs and a local Tyrolian farmer's market description). I intend to add to this list, albeit only with the word "pox", describing the animal in question. The manuscript is Der Renner from Hugo von Trimberg. This manuscript is peculiar because it contains 91 pen sketches, and instructions for the execution of these sketches can be found in the lower margins of the pages on which they appear. Here is the folio in question, f167r:     On the bottom it says:     So yeah, there it is. Another mention of "pox".  EDIT: here is the manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Why Voynichese doesn't have cribs? Posted by: Rafal - 27-01-2026, 02:03 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (22) The basic meaning of the word "crib" is a child's bed. But in cryptology it has another meaning. A crib is an encoding word where we suspect it's meaning or some plain word or expression that we suspect to appear in the ciphered text. See for example: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Cribs can help a lot in decoding of ciphers and unknown scripts. For example: - many WWII German messages were cracked because they contained predictable phrases like "Heil Hitler" or "wetter" (weather) - ancient texts like hieroglyphs contained cartouches ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) , names of kings taken in a border which helped a lot - Linear B was cracked by Michael Ventris because he correctly assumed that it will contain names of some towns like Knossos and so on Cribs are the weakest parts of the ciphers. Unfortunately they aren't fully avoidable because of the nature of human language. You can fight with them but you won't eradicate them all. The weird thing about Voynichese it that it doesn't have any obvious cribs and is different in this from other manuscripts. Would you agree? For example in herbals it was often very easy to identify the name of the plant. Have a look at the example:     I don't speak medieval Italian. Without googling I don't know what "oriola" means. But I can guess from the text layout it is the name of the plant. If the layout was the same and instead of "oriola" we had "47XAS3D45" then I would suspect that "47XAS3D45" is the name of the plant. By the way googling doesn't help that much in that case. "Oriola" word isn't used anymore, it means simply "the golden one" and was used for several plants. But it is a problem of historical botany and not cryptology. Voynich Manuscript doesn't have good candidates for plants names. First words don't really work. See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. In the same way astronomy part should be full of Zodiac sign names. We should have the words for Sun and Moon. But again we don't have good candidates. Was the scribe consciously avoiding cribs? He gave labels to some nymphs but never gave an label to any obvious thing like the Sun or the Moon. And in other manuscripts scribes often gave labels to obvious things. When they draw a dog they often signed it "dog"   But the scribe never does it in Voynich Manuscript. So why it doesn't have cribs?   A name to attach to the origins of the manuscript Posted by: Mark Knowles - 26-01-2026, 08:29 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (55) In a different thread Lisa Fagin Davis says: "I think it is extremely unlikely that we will ever have a name to attach to the origins of the manuscript. We may be able, someday, to narrow down a more specific place of origin, and perhaps a community, but a name? I doubt it." I wonder though how one can say that with such confidence. It seems unlikely to me that the author of the Voynich was an average European peasant. 90% of people then were illiterate. The author(s) of the Voynich seem to be someone who was very educated given the content of the manuscript and it is often argued must have been quite wealthy to have afforded the vellum and inks needed for the manuscript as well as available time to work on it. If the manuscript is written in cipher as most Voynich researchers have said they believe in a survey then the author could well have been particularly well educated and able to produce such a difficult cipher to crack. So, as with the works of Giovanni Fontana or Trithemius why should we assume the author was an ordinary unknown peasant? There are many records of named individuals from 15th century Italy and other parts of Europe, so to assume that there would no records of the author(s) seems unwise.   Curated list of lists / collections Posted by: Koen G - 26-01-2026, 02:59 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (19) I just made a new thread in the curated section, not sure yet what the scope should be. Let me know if you can think of anything that should be added. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. One example that just came to mind is the collection of crossbowmen Sagittarii  - Marco, were you hosting that somewhere?   Lists, ongoing collections and selected resources. Posted by: Koen G - 26-01-2026, 02:56 PM - Forum: Curated threads - Replies (1) For ease of retrieval, I will post links here to various lists and collections that may still be considered ongoing. I will start with the various spreadsheets I manage. For discussion of what else can be included in this thread, see here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Handwriting of f116v: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Project started by Marco Ponzi and myself, currently extensive enough to draw some conclusions. Best matches so far were found in central Germany and Zurich. Data suggest early 15th century. I will no longer actively contribute myself, but additions are always welcome - please request editing rights through the sheet. At least one forum member (Garlonga) is sporadically adding to the list. Handwriting of the month names: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Intended as a collaborative project. This is far from finished, needs many more entries and may benefit from improvements. Most challenging project due to high variety in informal handwriting. - Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Names of the months as they appear in the Zodiac section: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Collaborative project based on earlier research and new entries. There is a lot here already, but certainly not enough to solve the problem. Any additions are useful. - Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Rating bulls: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Collaborative project aiming to find properties of the Zodiac section's "Taurus" in other MSS. - Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Similar plants Herbal/Pharma: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. A collaborative effort was undertaken to collect and rate plants and plant parts that appear in both botanical sections of the MS. I host the file, but was not the main organizer. - Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Map of Swallowtail Merlons: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. See this thread for info: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.   Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript Posted by: eggyk - 26-01-2026, 12:08 PM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (6) Hello all, looking through the manuscripts on ecodicesNL I came across a manuscript with more "matches" in writing style than other manuscripts in the collection. I thought I would share them here, as there is a mix of some "VM-style" symbols, but also the usage of the letter styles found in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia.  Manuscript: Deventer, Athenaeumbibliotheek : 111 E 7 KL  Ijssel Region, First half of 15th century Link to manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     Usage of ß  Im not sure about how many dutch manuscripts have been found with this writing style and variance of symbols. In 15th century ijssel region, i would think that the native language of the author(s) would be somewhere on the spectrum between middle dutch, lower saxon or german, but i'm not certain. If so, the "so nim" section could plausibly be written by someone from the region. This manuscript uses ß throughout the text. Was that symbol used in middle dutch, or was it a strictly german letter? Either way, perhaps relevant to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia "muß". "Her" examples There are many examples of "Her", with varied looping styles. To my untrained eye, most are similar to f17r for the H and E. The R is different. I would be interested to know the meaning of this word within this latin manuscript and the context of its usage. Many of them are captialised, but some are not. Its noteworthy that many of these capital H's consist of a seperated left side stroke that is almost identical to the L mentioned later in this post. Perhaps the writer on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. began writing a H one word too early instead of L, noticed their mistake before completing the H and could simply leave it alone with the legible L intact.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     Luēz̄ + additional ēz̄ words The manuscript uses the ēz̄ ending semi-frequently through the text, including a potential luēz̄ match. Here are some examples along with many other words with the same ending; it would be helpful if somebody can tell what the ending represents across different words. If there is a clear usage pattern for the ending, it could shine light on the uncontracted spelling of "luēz̄". Here is a word seemingly ending "uēz̄", which is the most relevant here. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     Here are some other examples, most/all with "coēz̄"  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     Capital L examples, with diagnonal bottom It appears that the author writes their capital Ls with a diagonal stroke at the bottom, similar in look to f17r. The L in this potential "luez" example isn't looped, but the author is inconsistent in this, shown in another example where different Ls are used in a single sentence.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     Portat/Portas You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     Usage of different "D" symbols  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     EVA-like examples These aren't voynichese words of course, but many words contain letters that have a similar style to EVA "n,r,s,u" You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     These are by no means an extensive list of examples; they are all throughout the text and the text is rather long. I do have page numbers for each of the images in the document I used to collate them, so if there is a question about one of them let me know and i'll provide the location in the document. Hopefully someone finds it interesting!   Why the month names aren't Voynichese? Posted by: Zauriek - 26-01-2026, 04:23 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (13) Why the author didn't write the month names in voynichese? a)Was trying to be scientific: To quote exactly the source material.   1) He know the language.   2) He didn't know the language. b)Was obliged to write it down. (Why and how?)   1) He know the language.   2) He didn't know the language. c)Wrote them latter as reference.   1) The author, for some reason.   2) A different person, for some reason. [Like a latter owner.] d)??? --- a) Then, why it is the only instance? For example, when naming plants one would expect the same as with the months. b) No idea... --- I'm going with [c2]: 1. At first glance, the tint looks more persistent than the fading text of the manuscript:     2. Checking out the logic of the title placement of the potion section, i think the author or authors always leave enough space to put the titles of the drawings. While the placement of the month names look squeezed and clumsy:     Maybe even hinting that the drawings were made without the intention of having titles at all. Implications of this idea for [c2]: a) The individual who wrote the names may not have anything to do with voyniches. b) The months could have been written without a source in mind. c) The voiniches equivalent may be there somewhere in the page or they are totally absent (but then, why...)   The manuscript as a data matrix Posted by: almarture - 22-01-2026, 04:41 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions - Replies (9) Hi everybody, I have a theory that the manuscript is not a book with sentences, but with instructions that link the sections. I have seen a pattern in the Botanical section that tells you depending on the day of the year, which plant should you take, but I need someone to backup my theory. Can anyone tell me if this is the correct transcription of folios 1v and 2r? Thanks. Alejandro FOLIO 1v: MATRIZ DE 36 ANCHORS (DÍAS 1-6) Párrafo Superior (Días 1, 2 y 3) fachys ykalar fchol[Ari] oteey dary pchol[Tau] okal arora dchol[Gem] kydar pchoary katar tchol[Can] amon eyty kchol[Leo] kydar occhy shchol[Vir] kaimy kon dyra fshol[Ari] kalar aly pcho tey dyra pshol[Tau] kacy katar dshol[Gem] soty dary pchor amon eyty tshol[Can] kydar pchor okal aror kshol[Leo] kydar pchoary katar shshol[Vir] amon eyty fchor[Ari] kydar pcho kalar pchor[Tau] tey dyra dchor[Gem] kacy katar tchor[Can] soty dar kchor[Leo] amon eyty shchor[Vir]. Párrafo Inferior (Días 4, 5 y 6) dairon ol kydar fshor[Ari] kalar pchor tey dyra pshor[Tau] kacy katar pcho soty dar dshor[Gem] amon eyty tshor[Can] kydar pchor okal arora kshor[Leo] kydar pcho ary katar shshor[Vir] amon eyty fpotar[Ari] kydar fcho kalar ppotar[Tau] tey dyra dpotar[Gem] kacy katar tpotar[Can] soty dar kpotar[Leo] amon eyty shpotar[Vir] kydar pcho okal arora fdotar[Ari] kydar pcho ary katar pdotar[Tau] amon eyty ddotar[Gem] kydar pcho kalar tdotar[Can] tey dyra kdotar[Leo] kacy katar shdotar[Vir]. FOLIO 2r: MATRIZ DE 42 ANCHORS (DÍAS 7-13) Párrafo 1 (Días 7, 8 y 9) pchey kydar fchy[Ari] oteey dary pchy[Tau] okal arora dchy[Gem] kydar pchoary katar tchy[Can] amon eyty kchy[Leo] kydar occhy shchy[Vir] kaimy kon dyra fshyn[Ari] kalar aly pcho tey dyra pshyn[Tau] kacy katar dshyn[Gem] soty dary pchor amon eyty tshyn[Can] kydar pchor okal aror kshyn[Leo] kydar pchoary katar shshyn[Vir] amon eyty fcholy[Ari] kydar pcho kalar pcholy[Tau] tey dyra dcholy[Gem] kacy katar tcholy[Can] soty dar kcholy[Leo] amon eyty shcholy[Vir]. Párrafo 2 (Días 10, 11 y 12) dairon ol kydar fsholy[Ari] kalar pchor tey dyra psholy[Tau] kacy katar pcho soty dar dsholy[Gem] amon eyty tsholy[Can] kydar pchor okal arora ksholy[Leo] kydar pcho ary katar shsholy[Vir] amon eyty fcthay[Ari] kydar fcho kalar pcthay[Tau] tey dyra dcthay[Gem] kacy katar tcthay[Can] soty dar kcthay[Leo] amon eyty shcthay[Vir] kydar pcho okal arora fcthyr[Ari] kydar pcho ary katar pcthyr[Tau] amon eyty dcthyr[Gem] kydar pcho kalar tcthyr[Can] tey dyra kcthyr[Leo] kacy katar shcthyr[Vir]. Párrafo 3 (Día 13 - El "Ancla Suelta") fchor kydar fcho kalar pchor tey dyra fodal[Ari] kacy katar pcho soty dar podal[Tau] fchor amon eyty dodal[Gem] pchor okal arora todal[Can] fchor kydar pcho ary katar kodal[Leo] fchor amon eyty shodal[Vir] pchor kydar fcho kalar.   new working hypothesis for reading the Voynich manuscript. Posted by: sam french - 22-01-2026, 03:56 PM - Forum: The Slop Bucket - Replies (1) Hello everyone, I would like to share a   A Procedural Reading of the Voynich Manuscript Based on Abbreviated Medieval Latin.pdf (Size: 205.3 KB / Downloads: 32) My approach, called SAM (Système d’Analyse Morphologique / Morphological Analysis System), treats the text as a technical, procedural notation written in heavily abbreviated medieval Latin (14th–15th century style), rather than a ciphered natural language or an invented script. Key points of the method: I deliberately exclude EVA (Extensible Voynich Alphabet) and all phonetically-oriented transcriptions, i use my own transcription based on ancien alphabet. I have created my own functional, glyph-based transcription system that groups shapes directly into operational units (e.g. roaux → radix, ora → hora/time marker, chod/chot → coquere/ripening process, re- → reprise/repetition, bauba/baux → bulbus/base, etc.). These units are not phonetic values but functional markers inspired by abbreviated Latin in medieval botanical, medical and alchemical recipe books. I've only used AI assistance specifically to help expand and rephrase the abbreviated forms into plausible, non-classical medieval Latin sentences, while keeping the interpretation probabilistic and revisable. Every reading is systematically cross-checked against the illustrations (root emphasis, plant structure, cyclical diagrams, bathing scenes) to ensure procedural coherence. The current draft focuses first on botanical pages (especially You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with their prominent reddish roots), then extends the same markers to cosmological and balneological sections. The results suggest a unified technical corpus built around time – process – matter/body cycles. This is not a full translation claim. It is a testable, revisable reading framework that avoids linguistic encoding assumptions. I welcome constructive feedback, especially on: consistency of marker assignments across sections, parallels (or contradictions) with known abbreviated Latin manuscripts, iconographic fit. The working paper (with methodology, examples, limits, and my custom transcription rationale) is attached / linked below. I've kept to myself m'y sam transcription for now cause i need to work on it. Thank you for your time and thoughts! Best regards,   Were the images drawn before or after the text? Posted by: daviduartep - 21-01-2026, 05:10 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (5) Hello folks, Looking at the images, it appears to me it would be easier to draw the images first and then fill the text, and text do seem to conform to the images, not the other way around. I only found one instance where the image appears to obscure the text: But it appears they only made the last character smaller, not the image is over the text itself. What do you think? Thanks! First Previous Next Last