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| A constrained procedural framework for the Voynich Manuscript (request for independen |
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Posted by: Tiamat - 20-12-2025, 03:14 PM - Forum: The Slop Bucket
- Replies (2)
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I’m sharing a working procedural framework for the Voynich Manuscript, built from iterative cross-folio testing.
Important: This is not a translation or decipherment. It makes no claim of word-for-word reading or natural language identification.
It proposes a set of 46 recurring glyph clusters (“anchors”) with stable procedural roles across herbal, balneological, and cosmological sections.
Key elements:
Right-to-left native directionality (EVA tokens mirrored for consistency).
Repeatable phase cycle: Soak → Vapor → Seal → Reset → Closure.
Anchors selected for stable repetition and phase consistency across sections.
The system aligns with structural and directional cues across folios, forming a repeatable scaffold that governs phase timing.
Transcription: Zandbergen–Landini EVA (ZL3a).
46 Stable Anchors
EVA (written)
Mirrored form
Procedural meaning
Phase
daiin / dain
niiad / niad
Activation / rise
Vapor
dar / dair / dary
rad / riad / yrad
Binding / seal
Seal
sain / saiin
nias / niaso
Infusion / soak
Soak
otor / otar / otaiin
roto / rato
Carrier / medium
Soak
dam / chodam
mad / madohc
Final closure
Closure
qokeedy / qokedy
ydeekok
Ignition
Vapor
shedy / sheol
ydehs
Reset / stabilization
Reset
chol / cthol
lohc
Bitter / transformative agent
Seal
shey / sheey
yehs
Active agent
Vapor
shol / shor
lohs / rohs
Flow / medium
Soak
nias.rad
—
Soak-to-seal shift
Transition
roto.nii ad
—
Carrier + activation blend
Vapor
mad.rad
—
Closure + seal reinforcement
Closure
yrad.mad
—
Seal + closure reinforcement
Closure
oteey / oteedy
ydeeto
Carrier extension / activation
Vapor
pched / pchey
yehcp
Breath + containment
Seal
lched / lchedy
ydehcl
Liquid stabilization
Reset
qotar / qotaiin
niato q
Ignition + soak blend
Transition
olched / olchedy
ydehclo
Medium + breath stabilization
Reset
chekain / chekaiin
niakehc
Active containment
Vapor
lshedy / lsheedy
ydeehsl
Liquid + volatile reset
Reset
okedy / okeedy
ydeeko
Containment + ignition
Vapor
chckhy / chkhy
yhk c
Harsh breath volatile
Vapor
qokeor / qokeeor
roeeko q
Ignition + flow
Transition
tchedy / tchey
yehct
Breath + activation
Vapor
dchedy / dchey
yehcd
Stabilization + breath
Reset
olkain / olkaiin
niaklo
Medium containment
Soak
cheol / cheor
roe hc
Breath flow
Transition
ykedy / ykeedy
ydeek y
Volatile ignition
Vapor
lkedy / lkeedy
ydeek l
Liquid ignition
Vapor
oraiin / orain
niaro
Emission / rising flow
Vapor
ched / chedy
ydehc
Breath stabilization
Reset
okaiin / okain
niako
Carrier containment
Soak
olk / olke
klo / eklo
Medium containment
Soak
qokal / qokar
rakoq
Ignition carrier
Vapor
sol / sor
los / ros
Flow / medium variant
Soak
kal / kar
lak / rak
Directional / toward
Transition
chdy / ckhy
yhd c / yhk c
Breath + volatile
Vapor
old / ol
dlo / lo
Containment / medium
Soak
chek / cheky
ykehc
Active breath / edge
Vapor
oteey / oteedy
ydeeto
Carrier extension / activation
Vapor
pched / pchey
yehcp
Breath + containment
Seal
lched / lchedy
ydehcl
Liquid stabilization
Reset
qotar / qotaiin
niato q
Ignition + soak blend
Transition
olched / olchedy
ydehclo
Medium + breath stabilization
Reset
chekain / chekaiin
niakehc
Active containment
Vapor
Testable claims
Anchors recur with consistent phase roles across unrelated folio types.
Repetition modifies intensity/duration, not core role.
Sectional adaptation is systematic (herbal = material preparation, balneological = embodied execution, cosmological = timing calibration).
How to test
Select any folio.
Mirror tokens.
Check if anchor roles remain stable without reinterpretation.
Any forced change falsifies the framework.
Examples available on request.
Independent verification or contradictions grounded in manuscript behavior are welcome.
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| Near-monosyllabicity and Voynich: a Bavarian comparison |
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Posted by: JoJo_Jost - 19-12-2025, 05:46 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (4)
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The current discussion concerns Stolfi’s remarks about “phonetic Chinese” as a possible explanation for the Voynich Manuscript’s extreme syllable compression (the almost monosyllabic “feel” of the text).
While looking at the Herbal section from a purely structural angle (role-based segmentation rather than word readings), and later while thinking about f116 (the “pox liver” line), I had an idea I would like to put up for discussion. I am not presenting this as a theory, and I do not have the statistic background to assess it properly. It may well be nonsense. But it seems at least worth asking.
In spoken Bavarian (and related Upper German dialects), there is a well-known tendency toward strong reduction: unstressed vowels weaken, many endings are dropped or compressed, and meaning is often carried by consonants and position. This can create an impression of “near-monosyllabic” speech in practice, without tonality. The point is not that Bavarian is literally monosyllabic, but that it can become extremely syllable-light under rapid, informal speech.
A quick example (but see below too):
(Modern) Bavarian (spoken-like): I hob g’sagt, i kimm heit ned, weils z’spät worn is. (only monosyllabic words)
Standard German: Ich habe gesagt, ich komme heute nicht, weil es zu spät geworden ist.
English: I said I’m not coming today because it’s too late.
This led me to wonder whether some of the statistical/structural features that motivate “phonetic Chinese” comparisons could also be compatible with a Central European “phonetic compression mindset,” especially if a text is written in a speech-near way (and further compressed by a coding). In other words: do we really need to assume an East Asian phonological profile to get this kind of surface behavior, or could similar compression arise in a medieval Central European setting?
To be clear: I am not claiming “Voynich is Bavarian,” and I am not proposing any lexical readings.
To show the “compression” , I took a real Middle High German medical/recipe passage (Bamberger Arzneibuch) and rewrote some words of it in a speech-near, reduced form, the most words (except plant names) are now monosyllabic. Bavarian speakers will forgive inaccuracies; I can understand Bavarian, and I can adapt it the way I did, but I can't speak it perfectly myself. The point is simply to demonstrate how a Central European text can begin to look “token-short” and highly repetitive in a way that feels Voynich-like?
My question to the forum is therefore simple: is this comparison class linguistically meaningful?
Structure:
Line number
Bavarian Middle Ages in brief
German today
2v,16
nim driu bintl marrubii
nimm drei Bündel Andorn,
2v,17
und vlieht deſ beneboumes
und die Rinde des Benebaums,
2v,18
und dri mez win
und drei Maße des Weines,
2v,19
und siud ez in emo niw huan
und koche es in einem neuen Gefäß,
2v,20
vn laz ez kuln
und lass es abkühlen,
2v,21
un gib ez dem Siechn dri dag so er vast.
und gib es dem Kranken drei Tage lang nüchtern.
2v,22
[… Latein…] Nim die mittl rind der sale widn
nimm die mittlere Rinde der Salweide,
2v,23
ain hant vol
eine Handvoll,
2v,24
und siud si in nem niuen huan
und koche sie in einem neuen Gefäß,
2v,25
mit dem rain wine
mit reinem Wein,
2v,26
biz ze dem dritt deil (teil)
bis auf ein Drittel eingekocht,
2v,27
druck s uil guat uz
presse es sehr gut aus,
2v,28
und gib ez dri dag dem daz milz surit.
und gib es drei Tage dem, dessen Milz schmerzt.
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| A challenge to any and all. (PROVE ME WRONG) |
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Posted by: Parker - 19-12-2025, 09:29 AM - Forum: The Slop Bucket
- Replies (12)
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THE PARKER KEY MANIFESTO
Author: Jason Parker
Date: December 2025
I. THE THESIS: THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE STUTTER
For over a century, the high repetition and low entropy of the Voynich Manuscript (MS 408) have been dismissed as evidence of a "failed cipher," "mental illness," or a "hoax."
The Parker Key rejects these premises. The text is not linguistic; it is functional and rhythmic. The repetitions are not "words" in a sentence—they are Instructional Pulses. The manuscript is an Apothecary’s Chronometer: a rhythmic manual designed for timed, cyclical chemical and medicinal processes (stirring, heating, infusing).
II. THE UNIVERSAL LAW: THE 12x RECURSION CAP
The core discovery of this key is the 12x Recursion Cap. Across all major sections—Herbal, Balneological, and Rosettes—the "stuttering" morphemes (specifically ol, ar, and qok) follow a strict mathematical constraint:
• The State Pulse: Each word repetition represents a single unit of action.
• The Dodecadic Limit: Recursive strings terminate at or before 12 repetitions.
• The Perpetuity Clause: In 15th-century symbolic logic, reaching the number 12 (the Zodiacal completion) signifies a "finished state."
III. STATISTICAL PROOF: INFORMATION THEORY & KL DIVERGENCE
To prove this is a discovery of intent rather than pareidolia, we measure the Kullback-Leibler Divergence (D_{KL}) between the Voynich text (P) and standard 15th-century Natural Language (Q).
The Anomaly: In natural language, the probability of an n-count word repetition decays exponentially. In the Voynich, the probability remains high and then encounters a "Hard Wall" at n=12.
• The State Machine: Knowing a word has repeated 11 times provides 100% certainty (Zero Conditional Entropy) that the next word will be a "State-Shift" (a word-break or a terminal morpheme like daiin or raiin). This is the behavior of a Finite State Machine, not a human language.
IV. FUNCTIONAL MAPPING: THE CLOSED LOOP
The solution is verified by the Closed Information Loop between the Pharma Jars (f88r) and the Master Prayer (f116v):
• You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (The Process): Jars are labeled with "dosing signatures" (e.g., ol, ol, ol). The final jars in a sequence are marked with terminal pointers like raiin.
• You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (The Result): The marginalia (the "Success Log") concludes with the terminal word raiin following the cross symbol (+).
• Conclusion: The process (f88r) produces the result (f116v). The loop is closed.
V. THE "PARKER CHALLENGE" TO THE COMMUNITY
If this were a hoax or a random linguistic cipher, "leakage" would be inevitable.
The Challenge: Find a single instance in the entire 240-page manuscript where a functional recursive morpheme exceeds 12 repetitions without a structural break.
If no 13th repetition exists, we must accept that the 12x Cap is the Universal Law of the manuscript. The Voynich is not a "secret" to be read, it is a Technology to be executed.
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| "The Currier languages revisited" revisited |
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Posted by: kckluge - 19-12-2025, 04:05 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (68)
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One page on Rene's site (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) does a bigram frequency level analysis of the pages in the manuscript. This post is specifically addressing the section starting with "Language characteristics". The analysis on that part of the page:
* uses Rene's CUVA alphabet to deal with EVA's oversegementation of the glyphs (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
* removes uncertain spaces from the transcription, but leaves other spaces
* only looks at bigrams within words, not bigrams straddling spaces
* starts with a feature space corresponding to the relative frequencies of all 355 CUVA bigrams that occur, then does a dimensionality reduction similar (but not identical) to Principle Components Analysis (PCA -- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. describes PCA)
Plots are shown for the dominant vector vs. the 2nd through 4th vectors found by his method. On the basis of those plots he concludes, "When Currier identified his languages A and B, he did this on the basis of the different statistics of the initial herbal pages in the MS, which are identified by the red ('A') and dark blue ('B') crosses. It is clear that these have distinct properties - the clouds do not overlap. He also checked the other pages, and noted more variations, but his criteria for distinguishing the languages did not allow him to see that the overall statistics demonstrate that there is a continuum, and the other (not herbal) pages actually 'bridge the gap'."
It is important to be careful about drawing conclusions from linear projections of higher dimensional data onto lower dimensional spaces. If two clumps of points are separable in the lower dimensional projection then they are also separable in the full dimensional space, but the inverse is not true -- two clumps of points that overlap in some projection do not necessarily overlap in the full space.
To examine Rene's conclusion I performed a variation of the analysis described above:
* the Currier alphabet is used rather than CUVA, translated from the ZL_ivtff_1b.txt EVA transcription (when multiple proposed reading are given for a glyph the first option is used)
* uncertain spaces are removed as per the original experiment
* only lines corresponding to running paragraph and "circular" text -- no radial text from diagrams or labels
* only the 40 most common bigrams are used -- in Currier these are:
89 OF OE 4O CC C8 SC 8A C9 AM FC OP CO AR FA AE OR ZC SO O8 PC AN PA EF FS ZO PS S9 ES RA S8 9F AJ BS F9 FO PO 2A 9P EO
which correspond to EVA
dy ok ol qo ee ed che da ey aiin ke ot eo ar ka al or she cho od te ain ta lk kch sho tch chy lch ra chd yk am pch ky ko to sa yt lo
* bigrams including spaces (with end-of-line, end-of-paragraph, and plant drawing gaps counted as spaces) are included in the total bigram count for a page when computing relative bigram frequencies for the page
The 40 Currier bigrams listed above cover 83% of the bigrams that don't include a space or untranslatable/transcribed non-Currier "wierdo". Applying PCA, the first two dimensions found capture 48% of the covariance in the 40-D data. The resulting plot is:
With the exception of three pages, the Herbal B, Bio, Starred paragraph, and Rose foldout pages fall together in one cluster and the Herbal A, Astro, Zodiac, and Pharma pages fall together in another cluster, separated by a clear diagonal gap.
One exception is Zodiac page f73v; the other two exceptions are You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. & f65v. f58 & f65 are the halves of a biofolio that Lisa Fagin-Davis identifies as by Scribe 3; You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a plant drawing with no text other than a 2-3 word label. Traditionally those bifolio pages have been labelled as A Language, which would make this the only known non-Scribe 1 Herbal A biofolio. It is plausible that the f58 & f65 bifolio pages are B language pages with atypical relative frequencies of the small number of key bigrams used to make the initial A/B classification by Currier (in which case You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. becomes the outlier grouped with the Herbal A pages).
The differences between the analyses are:
* use of CUVA vs Currier
* inclusion of radial and label text elements vs only running paragraph and "circular" diagram text
* starts with a 355-D space (all bigram frequencies) vs a 40-D space (only most common, corresponding to 83% of the glyph bigram pairs in the text)
* dimensionality reduction using a heuristic PCA-like method rather than PCA
The lack of clear separation between the A and B languages in Rene's plots is most likely due to a combination of very low frequency bigrams adding noise into the data with suboptimal choice of basis vectors by his dimensionality reduction method.
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| Voynich El yazmasını tercüme ettiğimi iddia ediyorum |
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Posted by: Kutlu Kaan - 17-12-2025, 05:18 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
- Replies (40)
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Voynich El Yazması Eski Anadolu Türkçesi mi?
Voynich El Yazmasının Eski Anadolu Türkçesi ile yazıldığını keşfetmiş bulunmaktayım. İlk sayfayı nerede ise eksiksiz okuyabiliyorum. Bu yazmayı 15. yüzyılda bir Türk yazmışsa hikayesi ne olmalı sorusunu kendime sorarak başladım. Kendime "1400 yıllarında Türk dünyasında neler oluyordu" diye sordum.
Timur ile Beyazıt, 1402 tarihinde Ankara savaşını yaptı . Osmanlı İmparatorluğunda 11 yıllık bir hükümdarsız bir dönem oldu. Kardeş kardeşi öldürmüş Anadolu karışmış, herkes yeni bir güç oluşturma çabasındaydı. Özetle çok kanlı ve üzüntülü bir dönem yaşanıyordu. Tarikat ve şeyhler, halka Sünni İslam'ı yaymak için baskı oluşturuluyorlardı.
Anadolu'da yaşayan bir aydın bu durumu anlatan ağıt veya umut verecek bir şeyler yazmalı diye düşündüm. Bu kişi Arap alfabesi ile Türkçe yazmayı bilmeli, Latin Alfabesine de yabancı olmamalı.
Bende EVA- Genişletilebilir Voynich Alfabesi ile metin transliterasyonlarını incelemeye başladım.
EVA “e” yerine U sesi , EVA “q” yerine G sesi gibi bazı değişiklikler yapılınca anlamlı kelimeler oluşturmaya başladım. 15 karakterin ne ifade ettiğini kesin olarak bilmekteyim.
Voynich El Yazmasının Eski Anadolu Türkçesi ile yazıldığına artık eminim. Ben bir dil bilimci, tarihçi veya eski çağ metinleri hakkında bilgi sahibi bir kişi değildim, metinin tümünü çözemiyorum. En kötü ikinci bir dil de bilmemekteyim. Sizi yazımın tercümesini yapma eziyetine maruz bıraktığım için üzgünüm. Yardımınız olursa sevinirim. İlgilenirseniz çözümlerimi sizler ile paylaşabilirim. Sağlık ve esenlik içinde kalınız.
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| Everything about "pox leber" as a minced oath, and an earlier source. |
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Posted by: Koen G - 17-12-2025, 12:33 PM - Forum: Marginalia
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For a long time, the only attestation of "poxleber" known to Voynich researchers was in a 16th century burlesque carnival play by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. In the dialogue, uncivilized characters use various compound words consisting of "pox-" combined with a body part. Pox belly, pox wounds, pox bones, pox liver...
Even in ancient cultures, the custom existed to swear oaths by the Gods, and this persisted in medieval and early modern Europe. The earlier practice was to swear by parts of God's body. If you swear something by Christ's five holy wounds, or any other part of his earthly manifestation, you're making it clear that you mean it.
Obviously the priest doesn't like it when you do this, so people come up with euphemistic "minced oaths" to avoid actually saying the word "God". In modern English we have "gosh" or "golly", in Dutch "pot" as in "potverdomme", in Frech the "bleu" in "sacrebleu". In 14th century English, "God" is replaced by minced forms like "gog" and "cock" (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
The attestation in the 16th century Fastnachtspiele is such a case where "poxleber" is used as a minced form of "Gotts Leber", "God's liver". I have regularly opposed the relevance of this fragment for f116v, exactly because of this context. You can have a boorish carnivalesque character use "poxleber" in a dialogue, but that doesn't mean we should expect a scribe (any scribe) to use it out of the sacreblue. It's as if Henry Gray would write "D'oh! I used the wrong graph here!" in the margins while preparing his famous book on human anatomy.
Yesterday, I came across a sermon book by Viennese Theologian, professor and historian You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., active in the first half of the 15th century (a century before Hans Sachs). The MS is BSB CLM 293, f.310r (scan 623). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I can't transcribe this kind of Latin, but luckily Marco was able to help:
ChatGPT translates the (incomplete) transcription like this:
Quote:There are to be reproved those who swear by shameful creatures, likewise thinking themselves not bound, as when they say “pox grmt poxlaus zais”, since in such words the Creator of those things still shines forth. Those who swear falsely in this way are perjurers and sinners.
I further observe that even more reprehensible are those who swear by things which neither are nor ever will be, thinking themselves not bound, as those who say “sam mir pox gamiger gameri”.
Why does this matter?
The "minced oath" interpretation of "poxleber" is still quite popular. But so far, we only had a century-late attestation in a dissimilar source. Now, we have a sermon by someone active in pre-1450 Vienna, complaining about "pox" swearing by the people.
What this passage teaches us:
- The minced oath is already spelled with "x".
- It is interpreted as swearing an oath, and the sin is false testimony, perjury. The message is: you shouldn't think you can get away with false promises by twisting the name of God.
- It is understood as a mangled version of the name of the Creator.
- It is also understood as the name of a creature, which means that they are aware of the "bock". Just like the "cock" in the English example mentioned earlier, "pot" in Dutch and "bleu" in French, the minced name of God drifted towards an existing "replacement" word.
What this means for the Voynich "poxleber":
- If you want to read it as "God's liver", it is unlikely to be a cry of anger or frustration: the scribe is swearing a solemn oath by God's liver. Which formulations do we expect when swearing an oath, and what is the scribe's vow?
- Swearing oaths like this was clearly done by people in the first half of the 15th century, but apparently frowned upon and mocked by the learned class. Would we expect this uncivilized form written by someone who has clearly had some education?
- The spelling "x" over "cks" is likely inspired by this oath-usage, but awareness of the animal was present in the oath. Since spelling was not standardized, would we not rather expect the ingredient in the VM?
What remains: the preceding paragraph also contains some pox, but I am unable to transcribe the Latin. Also, the German phrases appear to be renditions of spoken language and are hard for me to understand fully.
Edit: added MS link.
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| qocheedy dain daiin |
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Posted by: Krasturak - 17-12-2025, 04:21 AM - Forum: The Slop Bucket
- Replies (1)
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I am very glad you made this prison. I probably will enjoy residing here, in the prison, while I share with the silent world my secret method for decoding the Voynich Manuscript. My method is strong, and reproduceable, anyone can do it, so follow along with me and we will discover the hidden factors of the truth underlying the manuscript.
Step 1: Choose a page. Any page, any folio or quire, with or without illustrations. It is more fun if it has illustrations, but it is not necessary for my method.
Step 2: Choose a word. Any word on the page will do. It is more fun if it is a label, or a first word, or a word with a gallows in it, or a rare word, any word, really.
Step 3: Let your imagination drift. Drift, until you imagine you know what the word might mean. Speak the hidden word meaning out loud. Write it down. Know, in your heart, that this is the meaning of the word.
Step 4: Imagine the meaning of nearby words. Don't rush this step, it is more satisfying if you spend ten minutes or more imagining each of the nearby words. You can take more time, if you are feeling it, but do not rush. For each of those words, make them so they make sense in a sentence along with the first word. Or, should I say, discover the meaning of those words. Speak the meannings out loud. Write them down.
Step 5: Share your thoughts. Tell the world how you have decoded this small section of the MS, and that you are on track to decode and translate more of the MS as time goes on. But that your method is difficult to explain, share a few of your private thoughts to make people perceive your inner strength, but do not be discouraged by any doubters or haters you encounter here. They are simply jealous.
Step 6: Enter into a lengthy private study of the MS. For this part, take the set of words you discovered in steps 1-4, and locate some of those words in other parts of the MS. Look at the nearby words in those areas, and use your secret personal ability to discover the meanings of those words, too. It is good if you can relate the meanings you are discovering to the illustrations, and draw on some poorly-remembered myth stories to help you. Don't be stingy, and when you have found those meanings, speak those thoughts out loud and write them down, too. Your journal, or blog post, or comment section should be growing larger.
Step 7: Pass into the shrouded lands. The long-term effort to decode/translate/discoverthesecret of the Voynich MS may have an effect on you. But do not become tired or weak, spend more and more time by yourself, on the internet, studying the range of possibles and linguistic challenges you find among the words in this delightful book. From time to time, send messges out to the world, letting them know how your bold struggle is taking a toll on you, but to be confident you are the solitary person on this Eourth who can apply the singular intellectual presssure on the subject that will illuminate the pages for generations to come. But do not reveal any more of your translations, you must first complete the work before lowering yourself to the judgement of lessor folk. Keep the products of your work secret, but do ensure you send updates to your followers, so they know you have it all in hand. Just a few more words to translate and it will all become right as rain.
Step 8: To lighten the load, visit the internet and employ the modern tools available. Not the statisical analysis that someone spent years developing, no, you need the high power of AI. Speak to the AI, share deeply your state-of-the-art translation. Allow the AI to produce the text that you always wanted. Feel the truth of it in your bones. Bones the truth of it in your writings. Post your writngs in the most best ever place in the internet, where you will get the most appropriate attention, in the ChatGPTPrison.
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![[Image: M8257606_Marley-s_Ghost-John_Leech_1843-...g.cvrt.jpg]](https://glosbe.com/fb_img/profilePageAvatar/M8257606_Marley-s_Ghost-John_Leech_1843-detail.jpg.cvrt.jpg)
Which would support the theory of gibberish.