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Getting close to a source for f85r2

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• Getting close to a source for f85r2

• RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2

  Barbrey > 06-03-2025, 01:42 AM

  Well done, Koen, Marco P, René Z et al. I love it when I feel progress is being made, and that’s how I feel about this research and analysis!
  
  Aside from the colouring, which I’m never quite sure about, I do believe the VMS authors/illustrators show a great deal of intentionality in the images. They might have used a template for the drawings, but if they’ve changed them from the original there is intention behind it, not because they were sloppy. 
  
  I think they intentionally changed the rosary to an actual chain, chaining the figure to the earth, for example. The first time I saw this image, I never saw the cane, just the chain and my immediate thought was winter/old age/death. And Kronos, chained in Hades,eternal time itself stopped. In literary symbolism, going back to least Shakespeare, “chains” of mortality is a frequent motif. I’m not a medievalist, but the idea likely goes back to the Greeks. 
  
  So at the very least, I think the authors did not want to denote autumn but winter and imminent death with this figure, and that may be why the rosary was changed to a chain. 
  
  I’d also like to point out the airy cloud rainbows that intersect the entire figure. One medieval art historian once pointed out that when we see images in rondels, we should always assume they are moving. They aren’t always, of course, but I do like to consider that aspect. 
  
  Anyway, my tentative interpretation, within a framework of the medico-alchemy theory I’ve worked on, is:
  
  So if you follow the direction of the airy rainbows from top left, the movement is counter-clockwise, from life (the flower), to mortality (the chain), to our medico-alchemist with their intervention; then the cloud rainbows point clockwise, the process reversed. Long life, health and even immortality   
  
  The “operation of the sun”, if you will.  And look, there’s the sun in the middle. 
  
  And above all is our philosopher, taking no part in the movement. Either the unmoved mover of Aristotle,and/ or the associated Hermetic god that sets things in motion by thought (expressed as air) alone. 
  
  Am I sure?  No. But I thought I’d offer this interpretation. Either urine or yes, nablator, aurum potabile works in this equation. Win all round.
  
  But aside from interpretation, which I do not apologize for, I’m just so excited about the dating and location possibilities to be found in this research. I’m so impressed!

• RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2

  zachary.kaelan > 06-03-2025, 03:05 PM

  Regardless of whether or not there is actually a decades-close common ancestor in play, any kind of parallel occurring in the same area and time period, especially one accompanied by plaintext, is more potential insights into the meaning of the VMS (or lack thereof), or the mindsets of the artists/authors.

• RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2

  Barbrey > 08-03-2025, 06:59 PM

  (06-03-2025, 01:42 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well done, Koen, Marco P, René Z et al. I love it when I feel progress is being made, and that’s how I feel about this research and analysis!
  
  Aside from the colouring, which I’m never quite sure about, I do believe the VMS authors/illustrators show a great deal of intentionality in the images. They might have used a template for the drawings, but if they’ve changed them from the original there is intention behind it, not because they were sloppy. 
  
  I think they intentionally changed the rosary to an actual chain, chaining the figure to the earth, for example. The first time I saw this image, I never saw the cane, just the chain and my immediate thought was winter/old age/death. And Kronos, chained in Hades,eternal time itself stopped. In literary symbolism, going back to least Shakespeare, “chains” of mortality is a frequent motif. I’m not a medievalist, but the idea likely goes back to the Greeks. 
  
  So at the very least, I think the authors did not want to denote autumn but winter and imminent death with this figure, and that may be why the rosary was changed to a chain. 
  
  I’d also like to point out the airy cloud rainbows that intersect the entire figure. One medieval art historian once pointed out that when we see images in rondels, we should always assume they are moving. They aren’t always, of course, but I do like to consider that aspect. 
  
  Anyway, my tentative interpretation, within a framework of the medico-alchemy theory I’ve worked on, is:
  
  So if you follow the direction of the airy rainbows from top left, the movement is counter-clockwise, from life (the flower), to mortality (the chain), to our medico-alchemist with their intervention; then the cloud rainbows point clockwise, the process reversed. Long life, health and even immortality   
  
  The “operation of the sun”, if you will.  And look, there’s the sun in the middle. 
  
  And above all is our philosopher, taking no part in the movement. Either the unmoved mover of Aristotle,and/ or the associated Hermetic god that sets things in motion by thought (expressed as air) alone. 
  
  Am I sure?  No. But I thought I’d offer this interpretation. Either urine or yes, nablator, aurum potabile works in this equation. Win all round.
  
  But aside from interpretation, which I do not apologize for, I’m just so excited about the dating and location possibilities to be found in this research. I’m so impressed!

  
  Just wanted to add that you having forced me to take a look again at this “operation of the sun” rondel again made me look at the rondel next to it with the moon in the middle. I’m pretty sure the sun illustration represents the Major Work and the moon illustration the Minor Work in alchemy. The first represents the operation of the elixir of life, the second the more every day practice of the alchemist or pharmacist (the mortar and pestle in particular give it away). I said it first!  (I think). I’ll post about this separately, but I wouldn’t have seen this without this post.
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