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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 697 online users. » 5 Member(s) | 686 Guest(s) Applebot, Baidu, Bing, Facebook, Google, Yandex, asteckley Latest Threads New members: trouble regi... Forum: News Last Post: Koen G 1 minute ago » Replies: 0 » Views: 1 15thc perception on swall... Forum: Imagery Last Post: Koen G 11 minutes ago » Replies: 600 » Views: 334,834 [split] Measure uncertain... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: Grove 1 hour ago » Replies: 7 » Views: 220 I am not convinced by the... Forum: Provenance & history Last Post: rikforto 1 hour ago » Replies: 19 » Views: 642 No text, but a visual cod... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Antonio García Jiménez 1 hour ago » Replies: 1,868 » Views: 1,305,483 Voynich is encrypted ENOC... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Radim Dobeš 1 hour ago » Replies: 361 » Views: 52,239 The 'Chinese' Theory: Fo... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Linda 2 hours ago » Replies: 799 » Views: 212,261 Voynichese is a numeric c... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi 2 hours ago » Replies: 195 » Views: 20,584 A Glyph Is Not a Letter, ... Forum: News Last Post: rikforto 8 hours ago » Replies: 22 » Views: 1,195 Voynich Reconsidered Forum: News Last Post: dfs346 Yesterday, 08:47 PM » Replies: 151 » Views: 108,702

AI Companies destroying rare books to train their AIs Posted by: Mark Knowles - 29-07-2026, 09:17 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (20) Let's just hope they leave some manuscripts for us.   Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn? Posted by: eggyk - 29-07-2026, 09:00 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (41) Hello all,  As part of the ongoing zodiac rating/collection project, approximately 230 depictions of Aries (from ~160 sources) have been logged in order to compare them to the VMS Aries symbols. Exciting or interesting examples are... rather scarce. There are multiple aspects of the VMS symbols that are simply plain missing in the vast majority of Aries depictions. The horns are almost never curved correctly, the body type is more often short and stubby, the tail is often far too long, and the animal is almost never interested in a tree or plant.  So.. is the VMS aries depiction simply rare? The Depiction (eating a tree on a rocky slope) Many of you may be familiar with this example from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:     Well, this depiction (of a creature reaching up onto a tree, or reaching higher, rocky ground) is a semi-common Capricorn depiction. Not Aries. Here are a whole bunch of examples i've come across so far:             This is perhaps the best evidence that VMS aries is actually inspired by a depiction of capricorn: the depiction of a creature on a rocky slope, trying to reach for a tree or high ground.  How can it be Capricorn? It's between Pisces and Taurus! Examples of this happening So far, I have come across 2 examples that demonstrate instances where this mix-up / mixing of styles happened:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. This example (that I just mentioned above) is in the Aries section, but is actually based on capricorn. The goat beard gives this away:     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. This example has aries and capricorn mixed-up: The capricorn is depicted in march, and aries is depicted in december:     This was not a binding error; these depictions were indeed on the verso of those months. So interestingly, the two examples with this capricorn depiction displayed in the "aries section" seem to have different reasons for having happened. One is seemingly a mistake, and the other seems to have been a conscious choice to use the typical capricorn depiction for aries. Similar designs for aries and capricorns within manuscripts Quite often, the designs of Aries and Capricorn are rather similar within the same manuscript. Even in cases that capricorn is a sea-goat, the mammal-half is often similar to the Aries within that manuscript. Here are a couple of examples, but there are many more:      Other attributes that suggest a capricorn inspired design The horns - Horns on Aries entries are very often curled, twisted and bobbly. Capricorn horns are often smooth (not always), and generally a longer version of the shape found in the VMS.  The tail - Tails are more often small tufts on the capricorn designs, similar to the VMS. The tails on aries designs is more often far longer.  The body - Capricorns are generally depicted as relatively slim creatures with longer legs, as opposed to the common fluffy, poofy build found in many Aries.  Common Capricorn attributes missing in the VMS The Beard - Capricorns are normally depicted with a little goat beard, which is missing in both depictions found in the VMS. However, this is not a universal feature; there's already an example of a beardless example above in this post. But I looked through quickly and found a few:     What I'm suggesting I believe that the design for Aries may have been inspired by a capricorn depiction. This does not necessarily mean that the intended sign IS capricorn, only that the VMS depiction of Aries was inspired by it.  Frankly, the only reason we assume this to be an Aries design is its location between Pisces and Taurus. If we had only these VMS pages in isolation, without Pisces and Taurus, the logical conclusion would not be that they are Aries at all. It would be that they are Capricorn. The next steps to confirm and research this would be to incorporate capricorn depictions into the rating spreadsheets, rating them alongside the Aries examples to gauge how well they score. This depiction of capricorn -if relevant- is a lead that may produce some valuable hints on where the VMS artist was from, or at least hints on where they were likely not from. My initial tests have shown that mammal capricorns rate quite highly on average, but I'm yet to finalise criteria that would rate them effectively and fairly (and punish them for their capricorn features, like beards).  Another step is simply to add more manuscripts to the lists, but that takes time   Bonmont Psalter, Besançon. Bibliothèque municipale, Ms. 54 Posted by: Koen G - 29-07-2026, 04:56 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (7) In the Zodiac spreadsheet, Eggy added the MS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., also known as the Bonmont Psalter, which I would like to point out as potentially relevant. The usual caveat: I don't recall discussion of this MS, but this may be classic Voynich amnesia. Second caveat: this MS is relatively early for our timeframe, made in the middle of the 13th century (Upper Rhine Region). I see it as an interesting node in a network rather than a potential direct source. The interesting section is in the beginning: the MS begins with a calendar, certainly derived from a different source than the psalter part. I will list some things. 1. "Star" with each Sign This one should immediately stand out to anyone interested in the Voynich Zodiac sequence. Each of the signs is shown semi-interacting with a big, spiked, faced "star". From the accompanying text, it is immediately clear that this heavenly body represents the Sun: in this case "sol in Leonem". The addition of the sun is thus perfectly logical: each sign is active while the sun passes through it.      Did the VM stars in Pisces, Virgo and Scorpio derive from such tradition? Quite possibly, in my opinion, but then completely bastardized. They no longer stand out as suns, and Pisces has two of them. So if the VM nonsense derived from a "Sun in Sign" tradition, its originally sensible meaning was no longer followed. 2. Some stylistics As said, the Bonmont Psalter and the VM are almost two centuries apart, and their styles clearly belong to different periods. If there is any connection, I believe we must imagine additional nodes between them. Still, there are some particularities worth pointing out.  First, all suns have full heads inside, a parallel we have had trouble finding in late medieval sources. Those prefer the smiley face: a mouth, nose and eyes, while the VM, early sources and some renaissance artists sometimes complete the sun-face with hair and a jawline. In the latter case, it feels like a personification is imposed on the celestial body. You can see this in Leo posted above, and different faces/angles in the Libra and Sagittarius suns below.     I also noted some possibly coincidental likeness between the style of drawing the outer rays with dotted triangles (central Rosette). And the way the libra sun splits an asterisked field with its twelve red, triangular rays. 3. Taurus "basket" The main struggle with finding parallels for Taurus is the apparent feeding contraption both bulls are accompanied by. The wicker pattern suggests that the VM artist did see these as mangers of some sort. The green paint seems out of place since I presume mangers would be filled with hay during the winter months. Which brings us to the main reason you won't find any bulls eating from mangers in calendars: they would just go out to pasture. And either way, mangers would not look like this.  (Notice also that the VM artist shoved trees in Aries faces, equally inappropriately; sheep seek out vegetation that grows low to the ground, like grass and herbs).  What if the awkward, beige cylinder was something else entirely in the source? In the Bonmont Psalter, Taurus shares the space with a rare monthly labor, which appears to me like grafting. The root stem has been prepared, and the man appears to be preparing a twig for attachment. So imagine a Taurus in such a grafting (or pruning?) scene: the bull might be close enough to a cylinder to make it look like a weird feeder to the inexperienced artist.     In short, I think this manuscript's calendar has some potential to, given one or two in-between steps and modernization of some signs, explain some of the most bizarre things we see in the VM Zodiac. Or it could all be coincidental.   VMS stats: YT video Posted by: elemental - 28-07-2026, 07:00 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - No Replies I'm not a Voynich researcher per se, but I do like statistics in general. I uploaded a YT video with statistical info about VMS, such as solutions by language (incl. from this forum), plus I've re-done some stats about the corpus itself. Some stats may be known, others may be new  Enjoy.    writing differences that I noticed Posted by: NineofTails - 28-07-2026, 12:54 AM - Forum: Theories & Solutions - Replies (20) So, I am not sure if this counts as an actual probability, but as of 8r in the Voynich Manuscript, the writing shifts slightly, causing the backside of certain strokes to be a heavier, darker color than the start of the stroke. Has anyone else noticed this subtle difference in the writing? I noticed it in the High-Res PDF version of the Voynich Manuscript.   Last line of f116v Posted by: Carnby - 27-07-2026, 11:15 PM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (6) I've been looking at the last line of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and at some of the German readings that have been proposed for it. A different possibility occurred to me. I would segment part of the line as: [Voynichese "words"] valsch vůren [...] so nim Got(ſ) mich [plummeting stone] The two forms that particularly interest me are therefore valsch vůren, with possible normalized modern equivalent falsch führen. In fact, initial v- for f- is well attested in Middle High German. Finding exact parallels is not straightforward. Depending on scribal practice, the initial u/v shapes could be differentiated in different ways, and modern editors might transcribe or normalize a comparable form quite differently (v-, u-, uv-, uu-, w-, etc.). The semicircular superscript sign, possibly indicating Umlaut, introduces another variable, so searching electronically for one particular spelling could be misleading. Instead, nim rather than modern nimm seems less remarkable to me, but it still deserves some caution as far as spelling normalization is concerned, as does the possible Got(ſ). This leads me to two related questions: Is the identification of the form I have tentatively written vůren with führen palaeographically and linguistically plausible for a 15th-century German text? If so, are there contemporary attestations of falsch + führen (in whatever spelling), and what would the construction have meant at the time?   French herbal ms.MaS 116 Posted by: DG97EEB - 27-07-2026, 09:28 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (8) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 1365-1375 (vers 1370) probably from Padua I did the usual searches but nothing came up.. 3 dragons and a dinosaur (?) And some Swallowtail Merlons Attached Files Thumbnail(s)                       Paragraph layout Posted by: davidjackson - 27-07-2026, 09:20 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (12) The formatting of the text is quite simple for the era. I am not interested here in the text analysis but in the way it is presented on the page. If we look at standard manuscripts or incunabula (usually agreed to be visually the same as their hand written equivalents) from, say, 1450 - 1500 we see text written in blocks, not paragraphs.  Many manuscripts will have clear paragraph markers -pilcrows-, usually distinguishable by a different colour or size, to break up information units, rather than the modern usage of using a line break, as I am doing in this post. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The Voynich, from the very first page, uses the line break format accompanied by a pilcrow. This habit is clear throughout the manuscript and all scribes follow the same layout instruction It is striking that the same layout instructions were applied by all scribes across all sections of the manuscript. A template, even if only verbal instructions, was given for layout and this was applied across the manuscript. The same layout was used for page after page, this indicates a conscience decision and even a group instruction issued if indeed multiple scribes were used How did paragraphs work? Quote:But while distinction of words was disregarded in early literary texts, distinction of important pauses in the sense was recognized from the first. The papyrus of the Persae of Timotheus of Miletus, the oldest MS. of a Greek classic in existence, of the end of the 4th century B.C., is written in independent paragraphs. This is a natural system, the simplicity of which has caused it to be the system of modern times. But, in addition, the Greek scribe also separated paragraphs by inserting a short horizontal stroke, παράγραφος, between them at the commencement of the lines of writing. It should be noted that this stroke indicated the close of a passage, and therefore belonged to the paragraph just concluded, and did not stand for an initial sign for the new paragraph which followed. The dividing stroke was also used to mark off the different speeches of a play. Besides the stroke, a wedge-shaped sign or tick might be used. But to make every paragraph stand distinctly by itself would have entailed a certain loss of space. If the concluding line were short, there would remain a long space unfilled. Therefore, when this occurred, it became customary to leave only a short space blank to mark the termination of the paragraph, and then to proceed with the new paragraph in the same line, the παράγραφος at the same time preventing possible ambiguity. The next step was to project the first letter of the first full line of the new paragraph slightly into the margin, as a still further distinction; and lastly to enlarge it. The enlargement of the letter gave it so much prominence that the dividing stroke could then be dispensed with, and in this form the new paragraph was henceforward indicated in Greek MSS., it being immaterial whether the enlarged letter was the initial or a medial letter of a word. As early as the 5th century there is evidence that the παράγραφος was losing its meaning with the scribes, for in the Codex Alexandrinus of the Bible it is not infrequently found in anomalous positions, particularly above the initial letters of different books, as if it were a mere ornament. Encyclopedia Britannica - Manuscript entry  Quote:The paragraph mark, enlarged initial, and disposition of text on the page formed part of an integrated system for indicating textual articulation. Medieval scribes indicated divisions in a text by combining graphic devices such as enlarged initials, paragraph signs, and the arrangement of lines on the page. These visual cues enabled readers to recognise the structure of the text without relying solely on punctuation. Malcolm B. Parkes — Pause and Effect p.65 Quote:Colometry. A modification of the practice of writing the text continuously was allowed in the case of certain works. Rhetorical texts, such as the orations of Demosthenes and Cicero, and the text of the Bible, might be broken up into short clauses or sense-lines, apparently with the view of assisting reading aloud. Instances of MSS. so written are still extant. This system, to which the name of “colometry” has been given, is the arrangement by cola and commata referred to by St Jerome in his preface to Isaiah. It will be found more fully explained under the heading of Stichometry; where also is described the mechanical computation of the length of a text by measured lines, for the purpose or calculating the pay of the scribe. Encyclopedia Britannica - Manuscript entry Medieval scribes were extremely reluctant to waste expensive parchment, so paragraph identification was almost always redundant. They combined several cues: new line, enlarged initial, rubrication, paragraph mark, marginal projection. A new line by itself was generally considered "too subtle" unless for the reason of Colometry. The Voynich often signals a paragraph by: beginning on a fresh line, using an enlarged "gallows" glyph, leaving a visibly short final line in the previous paragraph without bothering about justification or waste of parchment. Notably, it does not employ coloured initials or rubricated pilcrows, which were among the commonest medieval paragraph markers and which would have been instantly identifiable to any medieval reader. That makes its paragraphing visually simpler than many contemporary manuscripts while still conforming to the broader medieval practice of marking new textual units through line breaks and paragraph-initial emphasis. What am I getting at? If we discard the idea that the Voynich was designed to be read aloud - clearly most of it was not - then what influence caused the authors to choose and stay with this particular layout throughout the whole of the book? I think the closest structural comparators are not illuminated or library books but plain working manuscripts—medical recipe books, university notebooks, and practical handbooks copied between about 1400 and 1450. We often see new-line paragraphing with minimal decoration and no attempt at justification. What style could the scribes have been influenced by? Medical recipe books (Receptaria)  Astrological almanacs with prognostications  Practical herbals – especially those copied by working physicians rather than produced as luxury manuscripts These genres routinely consist of dozens or hundreds of short, self-contained entries beginning on a new line, and they are among the closest surviving medieval layouts to the Voynich's "recipe" section. We also see many clues to the Voynich being influenced by these working books, for example, many years ago we chased down examples of the Zodiac being influenced by the German hausbach calendar tradition, especially the crossbowman. This forum contains many examples. In short, the layout and visual clues in the Voynich points to the authors being influenced more by working books than by library books.  However, in many ways the Voynich has a much higher "production value" than these working books. It is much longer than most working books, many of which would have been produced by just one scribe.  The images are of a higher quality. The layout of the text is much clearer and more professional. There appear to have been a team of production scribes working on the book. The quality of the parchment is higher and there is no real attempt to maximise the use of the parchment real estate. Multiple colour inks are used with care and attention to detail. We are, once again, faced with a paradox. The Voynich layout and style is influenced by working books; its use of materials and multiple scribes suggests high end resources were available for its production.   How to create a pseudo language in 13 easy steps. Posted by: Dunsel - 26-07-2026, 07:01 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (7) Step 1:  Grab 100 random words from Dickinson Latin Core Vocabulary. Step 2:  Split those words into phonetic prefix/midfix/suffix.  Only keep the prefix and suffix. Step 3:  Pick 20 random prefix and suffix from that normalized list. Prefix Suffix men sa mag nus gra na cor cor mi ror de les mons do mu cem mo da nar mons me rus gens dus ma ro bo uam ca ue a a e e i i o o u u Step 4:  Create a list of vowels, a,e,i,o,u,y then, create a substitution table by shifting them one to the right. Step 5:  Create a list of random consonants then, create a substitution table by shifting them one to the right. Step 6:  Substitute those shifted vowels and consonants into your prefix and suffix table.  Make sure to pick suffixes and prefixes that do not contain k, t, p or f. Shifted Prefix Shifted Suffix buq go boz qag zyo qo wiy wiy be yiy xu dug biqg xi ba wub bi xo qoy biqg bu yag zuqg xag bo yi ri aob wo au o o u u e e i i a a Step 7:  Combine your new prefixes and suffixes randomly in order to create words.  Note, you can stack up to 3 prefixes onto a suffix. Step 8:  Insert a k, t, p or f into the first letter position of the first word and randomly into other words. Step 9.  See what your first test output looks like. pbuqi aupa bkeo bowub i rii buua bazyoaob oiqo zyowogo uexag xu bozxag woixo babarixi woyiy ebue buqqag bia bkiwiy babiqg abiko baboyiy beyi zyodug ebawpiy eebaxo eobawub a uzyoyi ogo buxag buau ibozxag bozzyokego qoybee buuxi zyobebiqg woo bobouaob bau wokbuqbixo biqtag wkiyuwub yag rti zyobipqgqo xubodug zpyogo bebfebui. kbebawiyau ewiy bebopbiqg bubobozau wiy buzyoku buqyag bozyiy euyiy exki uwtiy bozwub bobiqg be ewfiy beyag wobawkub btaeyag zuqgtwou u exuxi abibuqxakg ebiqgyi a baaob buqoyxo rikxo zuqgewub zuqgqag xugo bozwtiy axag biupbozau zuqgwiyxi exuwiy ou riqoyku ie bayiy ebozriwiy bobaxo o zuqgyi rioi ebiqgu biqgogfo boxi biqgykag zyoea ribiqgxo. kbibiqgu bawub bteqo wofe bewoxag bexag etzyoxi ia wobiqg bozbpuqyag riyapg riexi bubewiy bozyi boukqag biwoyiy yiy zyowobexo bogfo abae bozbozau qoywub eqto aob bkozbuqxag zuqgwiy bizuqgoxi o ribuqtwiy bebeaob bozbabuxo riqo atu zyoau zuqgueyi xuau biupxo zyoo ubuqaxag buwowiy uribozwiy bobiqgu boubiqg xubozixag babeyiy qoybeeyiy buqxag biqgu zuqgeqfo eebuxi. fbiqoywub xuxuxi biqgqo bebuqbiqg wopxag riyiy zyoxi boadug wto baaotb ria iabiqg wity xfubaqo u xag babiqag uboxuqag baiau qoybiqg i bekbuqyi e biabiqg wiybozwoa baxi biqgabae ebiqgqag iboqo qoyieqag wiyxo biqgibue owobiqg buqbadug zyoeadug biawou bobawub riqoydug e xurixo bayi riwfoeyag zyoyi biaxi rizyoqag aobiqag zuqgbekyiy xudug riboaob boufxo. ICK! garbage. Step 10: Restrict word lengths to 10 chars with an attempt to average around length 6. Step 11: Create copy/mutate rules.  15% of words are created from the shifted prefix/suffix table or just the prefix or just the suffix. 30% are copies of words you've already put on the page.  50% are mutations of words by adding, deleting or swapping prefixes in words that have multiple prefixes. And the last 5% is just singletons. Step 12:  Check your new output. fbozqo beqo i bozqo i bozqpo beaob babozqo beqo beqo beqo oaob beaob xubozqo ibeqo beqo xubozqo beqo qoybeqo woaob obeqo babozqo zyowoaob beaofb rikbeqo wiyu zyowoaob woaob wiyykag buwiy qoybeqo oribeqo a beqo bubeqo bozqo qoywiyyag zuqggko bfeoaob buqwoaob bozyiy woaob bebeoaob bibuwiy wiyte bibuwiy bibeqto ribuwiy btabeqo wobeqo. twiydug zyowtoaob buwity beqo i beaob beaob btozqo aaob zyowoaob biqgaaob buqbofaob xuzyowoaob bebeqo zuqggo buqbiqkg bozwoaob e obeqo a ubeqo ebuwtiy wiyi bozbibeqo ebutwiy biqpgbeqo bawobeqo exfag uibeqo bkozqo wiyu beqo bepwiye ubikbeqo oaaob ufwiye woaob ufyiy abeaob woxo wiyyiy biqgqo aaaob bozwiydug ibeqo xuaaob buqbetaob bawifyyag biqgaaob zyowobkeqo. kzyowoaob ebeqo oabeaob beqo buwiy xkuxi ibeqo oubeqo rkibaqo bozqo awoaob aaob biqgbeqo u obeqo beqo buqwtoaob buqwiyfi bozqo riwiy bfoi i bozkxo bezyoe bozaob iaaob beqo bei bozbezyoe biqgbeqo buqwoaob rixuqko ariwiy bibeqo bfexag uiqo buwoaob bowiyu exuqo bowiy uriqo opbozqo bozwiyi wifyxi i oxki iebuwiy woaob ebeaob iebuwiy. twoaob qoyafob biqgwiy zyooubeqo bozbozxo wofaob oiebuwiy buquwiye bozqo bowiyu euibeqo woaob baobeqo riqpoybeqo exukqo buquwiye xuwkiyyag uqpag zyowoaob woyiy bobebeqpo bobuwiy ibowiyu buqwoaob bowiy boztaaob zuqggo iebuwiy xuaaob beqo iqoyaob qoykuriqo zyoyi iwiyu ibobau oribeqo woyag u btawobeqo zyou bkeaob boyag wiywiy bebei aobeqo qoybiqg biqgaaob zyoki bozpqo bozexuqo. Much better! Step 13:  Substitute Latin characters for a cool looking alphabet you made up. fbozqo beqo i bozqo i bozqpo beaob babozqo beqo beqo beqo oaob beaob xubozqo ibeqo beqo xubozqo beqo qoybeqo woaob obeqo babozqo zyowoaob beaofb rikbeqo wiyu zyowoaob woaob wiyykag buwiy qoybeqo oribeqo a beqo bubeqo bozqo qoywiyyag zuqggko bfeoaob buqwoaob bozyiy woaob bebeoaob bibuwiy wiyte bibuwiy bibeqto ribuwiy btabeqo wobeqo. twiydug zyowtoaob buwity beqo i beaob beaob btozqo aaob zyowoaob biqgaaob buqbofaob xuzyowoaob bebeqo zuqggo buqbiqkg bozwoaob e obeqo a ubeqo ebuwtiy wiyi bozbibeqo ebutwiy biqpgbeqo bawobeqo exfag uibeqo bkozqo wiyu beqo bepwiye ubikbeqo oaaob ufwiye woaob ufyiy abeaob woxo wiyyiy biqgqo aaaob bozwiydug ibeqo xuaaob buqbetaob bawifyyag biqgaaob zyowobkeqo. kzyowoaob ebeqo oabeaob beqo buwiy xkuxi ibeqo oubeqo rkibaqo bozqo awoaob aaob biqgbeqo u obeqo beqo buqwtoaob buqwiyfi bozqo riwiy bfoi i bozkxo bezyoe bozaob iaaob beqo bei bozbezyoe biqgbeqo buqwoaob rixuqko ariwiy bibeqo bfexag uiqo buwoaob bowiyu exuqo bowiy uriqo opbozqo bozwiyi wifyxi i oxki iebuwiy woaob ebeaob iebuwiy. twoaob qoyafob biqgwiy zyooubeqo bozbozxo wofaob oiebuwiy buquwiye bozqo bowiyu euibeqo woaob baobeqo riqpoybeqo exukqo buquwiye xuwkiyyag uqpag zyowoaob woyiy bobebeqpo bobuwiy ibowiyu buqwoaob bowiy boztaaob zuqggo iebuwiy xuaaob beqo iqoyaob qoykuriqo zyoyi iwiyu ibobau oribeqo woyag u btawobeqo zyou bkeaob boyag wiywiy bebei aobeqo qoybiqg biqgaaob zyoki bozpqo bozexuqo. Extra credit:  Tweak the output as needed to make it look good and add some ambiguous illustrations. Now, before you say it:  Do I really think this is how the Voynich was created?  No.  Of course not.  BUT... I'm going to ask you to look over that output a bit closer.  You are going to see a lot of 'linguistic' traits and Voynich traits.  I know we're used to looking at Voynich and seeing it's patterns, but give it a shot.   Beqo.  It gets repeated.  Think daiin. And you get words like ibeqo and obeqo and oubeqo without even really trying.  Then woaob and beaob and bozaob and oaoab.   Think dain, ain, choldaiin, oldain. Just sharing something I'm working on as a theory.   I'm pretty well into it and as soon as I have something formalized I'll be sharing it as well.   Missing folios Posted by: Malatin_1 - 25-07-2026, 06:21 PM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (32) One question that has always interested me is the fate of the missing Voynich folios. It is generally accepted that several folios are no longer part of the manuscript, although exactly when they disappeared remains unknown. If the missing leaves once contained text and illustrations similar to the surviving sections, they could potentially provide valuable clues about the manuscript as a whole. One observation often mentioned in discussions of the manuscript is that the missing leaves appear to fall near major transitions between different sections of the book. Whether this is significant or merely coincidental is impossible to say, but it raises an interesting question: were these particular folios somehow considered more useful or more interesting than others? Another point that has been noted by researchers is the foliation. As far as I understand it, the missing leaves were already absent by the time the manuscript received its present folio numbering, which suggests that their removal may have taken place before that stage of the manuscript’s history. If that interpretation is correct, then the loss probably predates the seventeenth-century foliation. Assuming this is the case, one possible period worth considering is the late sixteenth or early seventeenth century, when the manuscript is generally believed to have been associated with the court of Emperor Rudolf II in Prague. This leads to an interesting possibility rather than a conclusion. Rudolf II’s court was famous for its interest in alchemy, natural philosophy, rare manuscripts, and unusual books. If the Voynich manuscript was indeed present there, it is not difficult to imagine that individual leaves might have been removed for closer examination, copying, comparison with other manuscripts, or some other purpose. At present, however, I am not aware of any direct evidence demonstrating that this actually happened. Another possibility is that the folios became separated later, during the dispersal of Rudolf II’s collections. The political upheavals of the seventeenth century, particularly the events surrounding Prague, created many opportunities for manuscripts and loose leaves to become scattered. There is also the well-known historical practice of reusing medieval parchment in later bookbindings and archival material. Thousands of manuscript fragments have survived only because they were recycled in this way. If the missing Voynich folios were ever detached from the manuscript, it seems at least conceivable that they could have followed a similar path. If that happened, where might they be today? One obvious place to consider would be collections that received material originating from Prague after the Thirty Years’ War. Swedish collections naturally come to mind because of the transfer of many manuscripts from Prague in 1648. Austrian collections might also be relevant if material from the Habsburg libraries remained there. This is only speculation, but it suggests a practical direction for archival research. If a genuine Voynich folio were ever rediscovered, I suspect it would be relatively easy to recognize. The combination of its parchment, script, illustrations, and overall appearance is unlike any other medieval manuscript that I know of. At the moment this is simply a hypothesis based on a series of observations rather than direct evidence. Still, medieval manuscript fragments continue to be identified in archives and old bindings even today, so the possibility does not seem entirely unrealistic. I would be interested to hear whether anyone knows of published research discussing the possible fate of the missing Voynich folios, or whether searches for unidentified manuscript fragments in Swedish or Austrian collections have ever included the Voynich manuscript as a possibility. First Previous Next Last