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| On vellum and drying ink |
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Posted by: lelle - 05-03-2016, 08:04 PM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (6)
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It's almost an established fact that there are few visible textual corrections in the vms. Would a scribe be able to wipe ink off without leaving traces before drying on 15th century vellum? Like a time limited "undo" in today's terms. If yes then that might partially explain the small number of visible corrections.
Mods: if this should be posted under questions to experts then please go ahead and move it.
Thanks
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| Beige stain on 93r |
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Posted by: Sam G - 05-03-2016, 12:16 PM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (3)
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There's a large beige stain running vertically on f93r. We might be able to infer something about when colors were added to the manuscript, in particular whether it was before or after they were placed in their present order, from examining it. Some things to consider:
1) Is this stain the same substance that has been used to color in the "inflorescence" of the plant on the same page? It looks that way from the scans. Maybe someone who has seen the VMS in person could comment on this.
2) It looks like the stain started at the bottom and flowed "upward", eventually running off the top of the page. As it did so, it looks like it picked up some green pigment from the leaves of the plant and transferred it along into the upper part of the stain. From this, as well as looking at how the stain overlaps the green leaves, it seems clear that the green must have already been present when the stain was formed. But was the green still wet when the stain was formed, or could the pigment transfer have occurred when the green was already dry?
3) Were the pages already in their present order when this stain was formed? This is obviously an important question, but the answer to me is not entirely clear. There does in fact appear to be a small stain at the top edge of f94r, f95r, etc. corresponding to the location where the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. stain runs off the page. However, these stains do not, to my eye, appear to have a beige color. Also there seems to be some water damage to the top edge of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that may not be related to the beige stain. So perhaps this damage to the top edges of these folios is unrelated to the beige stain, and just coincidentally happens to be in the same spot, unlikely as that may seem.
Well, I'd like to know what others think about this. Obviously if the stain is one of the colors used in the illustration and the stain formed after the pages were in their present order, then at least the beige (and possibly the green) were added while the pages were in their present order. On the other hand, if the manuscript was not in its present order when the stain was formed then the beige and green must be original. If the stain is not in fact the beige used in the illustration, and if the green pigment could have transferred into the stain while the green was already dry, then perhaps we cannot draw any conclusions from this.
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| Placement and position |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 04-03-2016, 11:44 PM - Forum: Imagery
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The general discussion of VMs imagery seems to focus on comparative illustrations and the interpretations of appearance. What has been left out is the use of placement within certain illustrations as a significant, secondary factor in the comparative interpretation of those illustrations. And there is an important difference found here. The comparison of appearance to external references is subjective. The comparison of position within an illustration (based on tradition) is objective.
Here are two instances where positional information is used to authenticate certain interpretations based on appearance.
The first examples are in the Four by Seventeen Symbol Sequence of f57v. And just in the first five symbols. This is the triple convergence on Symbol #5. This symbol has three interpretations based on its appearance. Each interpretation has a positional confirmation within that particular interpretive system.
As the Greek letter lambda, it is the correct distance from Symbol #1, if that is the Greek letter omicron.
As the medieval numeral seven (7), it is the correct distance from Symbol #2, if that is the medieval numeral four (4).
See examples of of these numerals used on Typus Arithmetica.
As an inverted version of the Roman numeral five (5), it is a five in the fifth place. Not in some other place.
In the second set of examples, the use of positional confirmation is to support the historical, heraldic investigation in the illustration of f71r, White Aries. If the investigation has discovered the secondary orientation of the blue stripes, their pairing and the red galero, then the comparisons to armorial and ecclesiastical heraldry have gone about as far as the can go. They are interpretations based on appearance and they are subjective, even though they are also historically unique. But what also comes into play is the way the figures are positioned. They are in their proper hierarchical positions as they sit within the celestial spheres of the illustration. This is an objective statement of position. Objective statements are far stronger than subjective interpretations.
So, granted, there are only four possibilities, if it were random placement, so the odds are 1 in 4. But this is the only proper placement for pope and cardinal as they were independently identified by armorial and ecclesiastical heraldic traditions.
Second is a positional confirmation based on heraldic placement. Both figures are in the quadrant favored in heraldry, which is the heraldic upper right. Odds of 1 in 16 to get both in this quadrant. Then it's a quarter of that from the part above.
Third is the placement of these historical illustrations on a particular page of the VMs Zodiac and why that page is White Aries, and not somewhere else - at random - 1 out of 14, presumably. It involves a combination of ancient religious tradition with the apparent whims of the VMs artist's painting paradox.
From the position that heraldry and history have identified the Fieschi clerics in their hierarchical positions, this is religious history - the beginnings of a religious tradition. Another, much older, religious tradition is the association of white animals with sacrifices to celestial deities. [Dark animals to chthonic deities.] And this is White Aries. Why is White Aries white?
It is interesting to speculate about various unpainted images, as to what color they could have been. Such is not the case with the animal in the center of f71r. Just about everything else on this page has been painted. A fact that sets this page apart. Every thing is painted except Aries. And on the other VMs Zodiac pages, the animals are all painted with browns, etc. Only White Aries is the white animal suitable for popes and their celestial purposes.
Fourth is the positional confirmation based on the inclusion and the placement of the pair of heraldic papelonny patterns in the Pisces and Dark Aries illustrations, matching in quadrant and in sphere with the blue-striped patterns of White Aries. Specifically arranged to show that the pun is obviously an intentional construction.
All four examples of positional confirmation are supportive of the historical heraldic grounding. Appearance is validated, despite the use of illusion to provide a slight disguise. Who was expecting a book of secrets to spill everything at first glance??
It is my interpretation that these examples of positional confirmation can only exist in the VMs through their intentional inclusion in the complex construction of these Zodiac illustrations by the author. And that the objective nature of these constructions is a valid indicator of the author's intentions as revealed through placement and positioning.
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"pi"-glyph as ligature |
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Posted by: Koen G - 02-03-2016, 11:30 AM - Forum: Codicology and Paleography
- Replies (19)
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I'm currently working on a translation of a number of words, in a way similar to Bax's work.
I don't have a value yet for several "minor" glyphs, which is not a big problem. Most common glyphs are determined and work well. There is, however, also a set of very frequent glyphs that still give me headaches.
It's the one that looks like Greek "pi", EVA "ch" and its various hats. I guess a total of three or four related signs, depending on how you interpret the hats.
There is one thing I'm sure of: it's a ligature or abbreviation representing two to three sounds. The middle sound is a vowel. The first sound appears to be a /k/ or a /t/, depending on the hat. The last sound is usually an /r/, though in one instance I'd really like to read it as a /k/.
So typically I'd get something like /kur/, /kir/, but also /tek/. This doesn't seem to work in all cases though.
I'm relatively new to Voynich studies, and haven't read any interpretation of these glyphs as ligatures yet, though I'm sure many of you have. So are there any parallels in medieval manuscripts?
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| Big red stain on f103r and retouching of text |
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Posted by: Sam G - 01-03-2016, 11:52 AM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (22)
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There's a big red stain in the upper corner of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that looks like it was caused when some sort of red substance spilled onto the page. It seems that this must have occurred while the manuscript was already in its present order, or at least while this particular folio was the same position with respect to its adjacent folios, because there's a smaller "sub-stain" in the same area of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - not merely a paint contact transfer, but a small circular stain apparently caused by the same red substance when it was still fully liquid. Look at it and you'll see what I'm talking about.
What's interesting about this is that the text in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. stain has obviously been retouched. So if the stain followed the binding of the manuscript into its present order, and the retouching followed the stain, then the retouching - at least in this instance - must have occurred after the manuscript acquired its present order.
Since there's apparently quite a bit of retouching to other areas of the manuscript as well, it seems likely that most of this retouching also took place after the manuscript was in its present order, although it is of course possible that the manuscript has been retouched multiple times.
So it seems that the retouching, or at least some of it, was therefore not done by the original scribe, but was done by someone who presumably did not know enough about the VMS to put the pages in the correct order, yet still took the time to carefully retrace some of the text and do a decent job (to my eye) of reproducing the VMS letters.
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| glyph and EVA/glyph transcriptions |
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Posted by: don of tallahassee - 29-02-2016, 11:36 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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I have deleted the thread and started over.
I have started work on a glyph transcription and an EVA/glyph transcription.
They are unchecked. I offer them here in case anyone would like to download an early copy to use and change as you desire if you don't agree with my transcriptions. If any group wants to use them as a base to make an "official" transcription, feel free. I'm not copywriting them and want anyone to use them in any way they would like.
They are based on the Majority Rule Transcription.
Unchecked after f89v. Only checked once (quickly) from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to f89v. Not yet completed. Much work yet to be done. These are the first drafts (very rough drafts), still in the process of being drafted. I've been learning a lot more about the glyphs and words as the work progresses.
I haven't worked on them lately - got burnt out after two months of daily 14 - 16 hour transcribing sessions in English, Voynichese and EVA. Hope to continue again soon.
If you would like to help debug them, feel free to volunteer.
I do not seem to be competent enough to add them to the Voynich Ninja site. They are large files.
I will send the following files concerning glyph transcriptions directly to those desirous if they send me their email address:
1. The majority vote transcription (EVA).
2. The glyph only draft transcription of mine. (to f89r2)
3. The EVA/glyph draft transcription of mine. (to f96v)
4. GC's hand a - hand b glyph transcription to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and some other files of his, mostly about those pages
5. Voynich 101 font
Let me know if you want Word or PDF.
Thank you.
Don of Tallahassee
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| Character-Limited Patterns? |
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Posted by: Emma May Smith - 29-02-2016, 07:49 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (11)
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The Voynich manuscript has only a small deal of repeating phrases. This is often (and rightly) held up as a mark against the text being a natural language. But the search for repeating phrases is based on finding exact, or fairly close matches. If we altered the terms of the search to be less strict would the outcome be any different?
What I am thinking is this: were we to consider only some characters (say [k, t, d, l, r, s]) to be important, would we find that those characters alone were patterned? For example, the phrase [chedy qokeedy lolsaiin qokain] would thus have the pattern [d k d l l s k], and would match the phrase [daiin kedy ol ols qokeeo]. Such character-limited patterns may be much more common and could bring some insight were they exist.
Now, the above is only an example, but would it be possible to find out a set of characters (or important 'bits' of textual information whatever they may be) which show the maximum amount of patterning in the text? And if so, what would it teach us?
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