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| What's up with f49v? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 09-03-2016, 09:38 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (16)
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I'm still relatively new to Voynich studies (couple of months) so there are some peculiarities I still have to learn about. I noticed on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a row was added left of the text, and some (rather modern looking?) numbers. Is there a consensus about who did this or what it means?
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| Eagle root |
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Posted by: EllieV - 09-03-2016, 06:08 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (29)
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I made some speculations about the eagle root on fol. 46v here
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D'Imperio describes it as "a bird with spread wings: an eagle!" in An Elegant Enigma. I have the plant id as costmary (Frauenminze) - in the old herbals we see it as the herb of Virgin Mary. I found couple of examples of Mary mixed with eagle with spread wings. I was wondering if somebody knows by chance any similar examples from early 15th century.
Thanks in advance.
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| Vms - modern replicas reviews |
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Posted by: lelle - 08-03-2016, 10:30 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (6)
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Hello everybody!
I'm thinking about buying a printed copy/facsimile/reproduction of the vms but am unsure of which one to choose. The only one I've been able to find somewhat reliable reviews on is called "le code voynich", and I am curious to learn more about the alternatives.
Will you please post short reviews here? I'm interested in your opinions on, foremost, readability, flaws, price and availability. Please only hands-on reviews - no speculation.
Thanks in advance, Lennart "lelle"
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The Voynich elephant |
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Posted by: Koen G - 08-03-2016, 10:27 AM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (47)
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One plant I find particularly fascinating is the one I aptly name the elephant plant. It strikes me as interesting because the elephant drawn here, blended to be hidden in a plant leaf, appears much more biologically accurate than elephants in comparable European manuscripts. In the picture below, I pit the Voynich elephant against the elephant from the Lombardy Herbal (Sloane 4016).
![[Image: elephants.jpg?w=676]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/elephants.jpg?w=676)
Other funny examples can be found here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
![[Image: 6a00d8341c464853ef017ee3d49fdd970d-500wi]](http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/.a/6a00d8341c464853ef017ee3d49fdd970d-500wi)
Another funny one (no date provided):
![[Image: 4befa663be28b3c609a7b097c10bffad.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4b/ef/a6/4befa663be28b3c609a7b097c10bffad.jpg)
Compared to these beings, the "no-skill-draughtsman" Voynich elephant is surprisingly "real".
There are exceptions, but as far as I can see those are made by people who for some reason got an actual elephant as a model:
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This site offers a number of examples as well, and also argues that realistic depictions of elephants can be linked to historical accounts of a live elephant being paraded through that particular European place at that particular time.
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Now my findings about the root-and-leaf section point strongly towards India, so I'd have no problem explaining this.
(Furthermore I agree with Diane's views about the manuscript being a copy of various earlier sources related to naval trade routes, which explains even more).
So what do you guys think? Why does the Lombardy herbal, which was written not long after the VM in Italy, depict an elephant as a sabre-tusked, lion-clawed furry monster while the plant hybrid in the Voynich does a much better job?
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The Voynich phallus |
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Posted by: Koen G - 07-03-2016, 01:44 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (27)
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Now that I'm starting to publish mt research on mnemonics in the root and leaf section (I prefer Diane's term over "pharma section"), I was wondering what your opinion would be about this specific plant. In my research it's more of an aside, so I haven't studied it elaborately yet. I mention it on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on my new blog.
There is "mnemonic activity" in the roots as well as in the leaves. If we first have a look at the roots, we see they are drawn like two "legs", with something rather strange in between. I think it's a foot, drawn in "running" position. It appears to have five toes and an ankle.
![[Image: fallus.jpg?w=281&h=543]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/fallus.jpg?w=281&h=543)
Now let's look at the leaves: the three leaves on the left are normal. Their tip is nice and round, like a good, decent leaf tip. Their position is as one would expect a leaf to behave.
But now look at the leaf on the right. Its "tip" is drawn totally differently. Also, it appears to hang more, like it's heavier than the other leaves.
Come on, it's a phallus.
But what does it mean? Some kind of hardwood?
My best guess, in the light of my other research, is that it has something to do with Hermes, who was both a messenger (running foot) and a fertility god (large phallus). I'm not certain though, so I wonder what you guys make of this.
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| On vellum and drying ink |
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Posted by: lelle - 05-03-2016, 08:04 PM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (6)
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It's almost an established fact that there are few visible textual corrections in the vms. Would a scribe be able to wipe ink off without leaving traces before drying on 15th century vellum? Like a time limited "undo" in today's terms. If yes then that might partially explain the small number of visible corrections.
Mods: if this should be posted under questions to experts then please go ahead and move it.
Thanks
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| Beige stain on 93r |
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Posted by: Sam G - 05-03-2016, 12:16 PM - Forum: Physical material
- Replies (3)
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There's a large beige stain running vertically on f93r. We might be able to infer something about when colors were added to the manuscript, in particular whether it was before or after they were placed in their present order, from examining it. Some things to consider:
1) Is this stain the same substance that has been used to color in the "inflorescence" of the plant on the same page? It looks that way from the scans. Maybe someone who has seen the VMS in person could comment on this.
2) It looks like the stain started at the bottom and flowed "upward", eventually running off the top of the page. As it did so, it looks like it picked up some green pigment from the leaves of the plant and transferred it along into the upper part of the stain. From this, as well as looking at how the stain overlaps the green leaves, it seems clear that the green must have already been present when the stain was formed. But was the green still wet when the stain was formed, or could the pigment transfer have occurred when the green was already dry?
3) Were the pages already in their present order when this stain was formed? This is obviously an important question, but the answer to me is not entirely clear. There does in fact appear to be a small stain at the top edge of f94r, f95r, etc. corresponding to the location where the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. stain runs off the page. However, these stains do not, to my eye, appear to have a beige color. Also there seems to be some water damage to the top edge of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that may not be related to the beige stain. So perhaps this damage to the top edges of these folios is unrelated to the beige stain, and just coincidentally happens to be in the same spot, unlikely as that may seem.
Well, I'd like to know what others think about this. Obviously if the stain is one of the colors used in the illustration and the stain formed after the pages were in their present order, then at least the beige (and possibly the green) were added while the pages were in their present order. On the other hand, if the manuscript was not in its present order when the stain was formed then the beige and green must be original. If the stain is not in fact the beige used in the illustration, and if the green pigment could have transferred into the stain while the green was already dry, then perhaps we cannot draw any conclusions from this.
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| Placement and position |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 04-03-2016, 11:44 PM - Forum: Imagery
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The general discussion of VMs imagery seems to focus on comparative illustrations and the interpretations of appearance. What has been left out is the use of placement within certain illustrations as a significant, secondary factor in the comparative interpretation of those illustrations. And there is an important difference found here. The comparison of appearance to external references is subjective. The comparison of position within an illustration (based on tradition) is objective.
Here are two instances where positional information is used to authenticate certain interpretations based on appearance.
The first examples are in the Four by Seventeen Symbol Sequence of f57v. And just in the first five symbols. This is the triple convergence on Symbol #5. This symbol has three interpretations based on its appearance. Each interpretation has a positional confirmation within that particular interpretive system.
As the Greek letter lambda, it is the correct distance from Symbol #1, if that is the Greek letter omicron.
As the medieval numeral seven (7), it is the correct distance from Symbol #2, if that is the medieval numeral four (4).
See examples of of these numerals used on Typus Arithmetica.
As an inverted version of the Roman numeral five (5), it is a five in the fifth place. Not in some other place.
In the second set of examples, the use of positional confirmation is to support the historical, heraldic investigation in the illustration of f71r, White Aries. If the investigation has discovered the secondary orientation of the blue stripes, their pairing and the red galero, then the comparisons to armorial and ecclesiastical heraldry have gone about as far as the can go. They are interpretations based on appearance and they are subjective, even though they are also historically unique. But what also comes into play is the way the figures are positioned. They are in their proper hierarchical positions as they sit within the celestial spheres of the illustration. This is an objective statement of position. Objective statements are far stronger than subjective interpretations.
So, granted, there are only four possibilities, if it were random placement, so the odds are 1 in 4. But this is the only proper placement for pope and cardinal as they were independently identified by armorial and ecclesiastical heraldic traditions.
Second is a positional confirmation based on heraldic placement. Both figures are in the quadrant favored in heraldry, which is the heraldic upper right. Odds of 1 in 16 to get both in this quadrant. Then it's a quarter of that from the part above.
Third is the placement of these historical illustrations on a particular page of the VMs Zodiac and why that page is White Aries, and not somewhere else - at random - 1 out of 14, presumably. It involves a combination of ancient religious tradition with the apparent whims of the VMs artist's painting paradox.
From the position that heraldry and history have identified the Fieschi clerics in their hierarchical positions, this is religious history - the beginnings of a religious tradition. Another, much older, religious tradition is the association of white animals with sacrifices to celestial deities. [Dark animals to chthonic deities.] And this is White Aries. Why is White Aries white?
It is interesting to speculate about various unpainted images, as to what color they could have been. Such is not the case with the animal in the center of f71r. Just about everything else on this page has been painted. A fact that sets this page apart. Every thing is painted except Aries. And on the other VMs Zodiac pages, the animals are all painted with browns, etc. Only White Aries is the white animal suitable for popes and their celestial purposes.
Fourth is the positional confirmation based on the inclusion and the placement of the pair of heraldic papelonny patterns in the Pisces and Dark Aries illustrations, matching in quadrant and in sphere with the blue-striped patterns of White Aries. Specifically arranged to show that the pun is obviously an intentional construction.
All four examples of positional confirmation are supportive of the historical heraldic grounding. Appearance is validated, despite the use of illusion to provide a slight disguise. Who was expecting a book of secrets to spill everything at first glance??
It is my interpretation that these examples of positional confirmation can only exist in the VMs through their intentional inclusion in the complex construction of these Zodiac illustrations by the author. And that the objective nature of these constructions is a valid indicator of the author's intentions as revealed through placement and positioning.
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![[Image: voynich-blue-orchid.jpg?w=680]](https://voynichlatin.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/voynich-blue-orchid.jpg?w=680)
![[Image: voynich-blue-orchid-roots.jpg?w=680]](https://voynichlatin.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/voynich-blue-orchid-roots.jpg?w=680)
![[Image: blue-orchid-roots.jpg?w=680]](https://voynichlatin.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/blue-orchid-roots.jpg?w=680)