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• Nebuly plant leaves

  R. Sale > 11-07-2016, 08:39 PM

  The VMs has several examples (f35v, f41v, f50r) of plants where the leaf edges are drawn with a nebuly line. Nebly is a term borrowed from heraldry that defines a line similar to a sine wave, but with bulbous crests and troughs.
  
  Are there really plants that have this kind of leaf margin?
  
  
  And has anyone found this type of line similarly used in other medieval botanical illustrations?
  
  Other examples of the use of this line are found in VMs Quire 13 and elsewhere. This clearly puts the VMs in the group using this artistic device, while there are many examples illustrations and manuscripts where such use is not demonstrated.

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  Helmut Winkler > 12-07-2016, 09:45 AM

  I think the Voynich draughtsman was trying to draw real plants after nature, look at one of these sites s.v. lobate. especially the NWMissouri site under 'lobed'
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• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  R. Sale > 12-07-2016, 06:20 PM

  Thanks Helmut,
  
  Lobate is the best example. But there is a problem with that, as far as I can see currently, and that is that nature is irregular in this instance and the lobes have different permutations of size and shape. So if the artist is drawing from nature, why wouldn't the illustration represent the irregularity found in nature? Why draw a representation of a standard nebuly line - unless it can't be avoided.
  
  To me, it's the imposed regularity of the line as a visual motif, or whatever you want to call it. Irregularity replaced by an imposed regularity. And it shares a commonality with heraldry in the form of the nebuly line.
  
  So the question I have is how do other herbal manuscripts represent lobate? And more specifically, does anyone know an instance in these other [non-VMs] illustrations where a nebuly line was used?
  
  I'm not sure what it is, but the VMs affinity for the use of nebuly lines seems to indicate something. There are so many other examples and instances where it *does not occur*. Why would the VMs artist have been someone to have known and used the nebuly motif?

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  Koen G > 12-07-2016, 07:27 PM

  Regular patterns are just appealing to the human eye. That is why they are found throughout the history of art - especially the early history. Even if the draughtsman was drawing from nature, he may still have imposed some degree of abstraction on the shape of the leaves.

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  R. Sale > 12-07-2016, 11:59 PM

  Koen,
  
  That's certainly true, but if it were a common thing, if others were doing it as well, then there would be the possibility of other examples. And it would be interesting to know something about the provenance of those examples. As soon as somebody finds one. The use of nebuly lines in general is rather limited. To find them used on plants in another source might reveal interesting connections.

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  Pardis Motiee > 27-07-2021, 09:09 AM

  F41v is Pimpinella anisum, you can check the leaf, it is lobed. The plant leaves are described You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as alternate, entire to pinnately compound; petiole 4-10 cm long in lower leaves, gradually shorter to absent in uppermost leaves, always sheathing at base; blade of lower leaves orbicular-reniform, dentately lobed; blade of middle leaves pinnate or 3-foliolate with incised leaflets; blade of uppermost leaves 3-partite, subsessile.

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  Linda > 27-07-2021, 08:10 PM

  It could also signify a texture, rather than a shape some leaves with straight edges do curl and make a wavy edge.

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  Pardis Motiee > 28-07-2021, 09:22 AM

  Linda, could you show me an image of the structure?

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  Linda > 28-07-2021, 03:18 PM

  (28-07-2021, 09:22 AM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Linda, could you show me an image of the structure?

  I meant something along these lines
  
  

• RE: Nebuly plant leaves

  R. Sale > 28-07-2021, 05:45 PM

  Indeed, there are all kinds of wavy and undulating patterns in the botanical world. And artists can represent them as they like. However, there are many examples of standard leaf margin patterns and nebuly is not one of them.
  
  The thing about a nebuly line is that it has a specific definition, which is that the crests and troughs are *bulbous*. That is the criterion. If it isn't bulbous, it isn't nebuly.
  
  There is, however, some variation in the representation of 'bulbous'.  The single variation is the standard. There is a bifurcated option. The three-part, head and shoulders version is not uncommon (one in VMs plants). And the multi-parted, scallop-shell variation became an artistic favorite.
  
  The difference between the standard nebuly line, and the scallop-shell version is that the latter has a running series of arches along the outer portion of the bulbs. Like a series of m's (mmm) with six or so arches. There are also examples where this running (engrailed/invected) arch pattern runs up and down the sides of the bulbs as well. In the VMs central rosette, there is blue paint to go along with it.
  
  There's a nebuly line in the VMs cosmos and many in Quire 13. So, what's with the plants? Either the artist knows some unusual plants, or this is another example of VMs artistic trickery. The artist is making a 'joke', creating a deception, making a fantasy world in which traditional and historical information has been presented in a disguised and visually altered form. The nebuly line, and heraldry more generally, are part of the visual code by which this information was recorded and, hopefully, transmitted.
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