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| The presence of FIVE |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 18-06-2017, 07:07 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (14)
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So, here are some things that relate to the number 'five' or occur in fives. Perhaps there are other examples.
As I have already mentioned, it is position 5, in the seventeen symbol sequence, where there is a certain glyph with three relevant, medieval interpretations.
In position six is a glyph that has been interpreted as a quincunx. This is a symbol found in astrology, used to designate the house that is *fifth* from the primary house - the natal house in astrology, but in the traditional Zodiac, the fifth house is Leo. However, in the VMs, because the VMs has Pisces first, the fifth house is Cancer. Let's look at Cancer.
Two things about VMs Cancer:
1) It has an example of "Stolfi's marker". This is the short, patterned space in the circular band of text. Middle ring, nine o'clock, as I recall. And there are only two other such examples in the VMs Zodiac - both on White Aries.
2) The image of the central medallion is a pair. And as a pair, it is the *fifth* house in a series where the central medallion is either paired internally or duplicated externally to make a pair. Five pairings in sequence, and more within this set if other factors are considered. And more pairings besides, on the same Zodiac pages.
Back with the 17 symbol sequence, two of the potential interpretations of Symbol 5 were numerical and one was from the Greek alphabet. But the Greek symbols are also potentially numerals. The same symbols occur in sequence with an interesting exception. Three additional symbols were added as numerals. The first of these is the insertion of the old letter 'digamma' as the number '6'. The Greek alphabetic sequence and numerical sequence only match for the first *five* symbols.
So there is nothing here that can't be plainly seen or easily known. Does it potentially all tie together? That is the question. Certainly this sort of suggestive thinking was common in the medieval period. And whether the author was such a person or not, s/he still may have known and used such method.
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| f68r: inspired by the Star-Mantle? |
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Posted by: VViews - 17-06-2017, 01:21 PM - Forum: Astrology & Astronomy
- Replies (4)
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In my search for parallels to the circular field of labeled stars on the 68r folios, I found an item which I believe is worthy of comparison with these folios, so I'm posting it here for discussion.
The object is the so-called Star Mantle of Henry II, gifted to him by a certain bishop Ismahel of Bari in 1020.
It soon ended up in the Bamberg Cathedral, where it underwent a significant restoration in the 15th C, during which the blue background was added (the original was purple silk) and the labels (tituli) were methodically un-sewn and rearranged differently so as to form new words and sentences. Apparently, there were originally many more labels than have survived.
Although they placed the labels differently, the placement of the stars and other elements was respected. However, the arrangement of stars here is not a literal map of the stars: "The placement of the images corresponds neither to a map nor to a celestial globe. The distribution of figures seems to be entirely arbitrary" (p. 22 in the referenced text below)
It is also worth noting that while the surviving mantle is only a semi-circle, the original one was actually fully circular, with a hole in the middle for the wearer's head to fit through. The emperor thus literally became the axis around which the heavens moved.
Here's the largest image I could find:
![[Image: star-cloak2.jpg]](https://flextiles.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/star-cloak2.jpg)
A good in-depth read about it can be found You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Considering that this mantle was restored in Bamberg in the 15th C, I wonder if such a prodigious object could have inspired the creators of 15thC manuscripts in Bamberg and beyond (the mantle was extremely famous at the time, in fact, the thousands of pilgrims coming to touch it are to blame for its early deterioration)... Of course, I am wondering if this object could have inspired the Voynich artist.
Conversely, the field of labeled stars it features could have been inspired by a now-lost depiction of the heavens. The author of the paper linked below suggests Gregory of Tours' De Cursu Stellarum as an influence, but concedes that this model alone doesn't explain what we see on the Star Mantle.
It would be very interesting to know more about Ismahel of Bari and the creators of this mantle.
What do you all think about this artifact as a parallel for the 68r folios?
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| House of Visconti |
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Posted by: Vonologia - 16-06-2017, 03:34 PM - Forum: Provenance & history
- Replies (13)
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Would like to start a thread to discuss the House of Visconti.
Particularly interested in Gian Galeazzo (1351-1402) and his daughter Vanentina Visconti (the Duchess of Orleans)
and any relationship to the VMS.
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| Jacek Syguła & Agnieszka Kałużna - paper at academia.edu |
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Posted by: Diane - 15-06-2017, 09:16 PM - Forum: Theories & Solutions
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Jacek and Agnieszka have kindly been keeping me in touch with their study of the written text, even though aware that I'm not in a position to offer any useful comment on 'cracking' the language.
You can find the paper at academia.edu by searching 'Jacek Sygula' there.
I'll be honest and say that I'm not certain the paper isn't a hoax.
Would anyone better able to say something useful about the content care to comment?
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| Beinecke MS 404 |
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Posted by: ReneZ - 13-06-2017, 02:17 PM - Forum: Imagery
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No this is not a typo.
During a workshop held at the Beinecke this week, several manuscripts in the collection are being explained to students.
One of these is the 'Rothschild Canticles', and its picture on the Beinecke facebook page immediately drew my attention.
It is this one: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Both (tiny) volumes have been fully digitised:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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| The value of imperfection |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 12-06-2017, 07:55 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (18)
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Imperfection, though frequently unavoidable, is generally seen as a detriment. In VMs investigations it is often problematic in the comparison of images. But the VMs is also something like a topsy-turvy world where things are not what they seem, but they are what they are.
I have been wondering, from the perspective of the VMs composer, who would be the person most likely to make sense of the contents? And in the medieval era the majority of people were still illiterate. Those who could read were often associated with and educated through the church. It might be assumed that it would take a determined individual to even attempt to make sense of VMs contents - a person that is devoted and meticulous.
And the VMs itself is extremely problematic. Is it a natural 'foreign' document of unknown origin? Is it encoded, encrypted? Does it make sense at all? Without being able to read the text and given the strange botanical, astrological, balneological, pharmacological illustrations, the VMs is like an intentionally weird haystack in which a few useful needles have been hidden - such as the Oresme cosmos and cloud band, in two parts.
So if the VMs is an intentionally covert document, who is it hiding from? Not from the illiterate majority. It needs to hide from the determined, inquisitive, meticulous minority. How can that be done? One technique is the use of imperfection. Take the example of the 4 by 17 symbol sequence of VMs f57v. It might be a potential candidate for a VMs alphabet or numerical sequence, *but* not all four sequences are identical and there are other glyphs found in the text. Those meticulous investigators who require consistent detail as a criterion for further investigation will be deterred. That which was hidden remains hidden (the existence of positional relationships in the glyph sequence).
It is not necessary that every correspondence is perfect. What is needed is to show the existence of this complex construction is intentional. And it can only be intentional because it is too complex and contains multiple, independent factors that accord with history and tradition which provide verification. In a manuscript where little makes much sense, there are subtle, obscure and ambiguous inclusions of normal, standard, traditional, historical information for the prospective reader's potential discovery and subjective interpretation. The challenge put forth by author/text is one of recognition and understanding of this *normal* information in a strange environment. Does the reader pass or fail? Is the investigation derailed by minor discrepancies rather than seeing the evidence as a whole. Are the potential, subjective interpretations denied even before the existence of objective, positional confirmations is discovered? Are there intentional discrepancies and imperfections intended to divert and deter those who require everything to be totally nailed down and verified in detail? Part of the purpose of these complex constructions in the VMs is that they are hidden.
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| Finding a combination |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 11-06-2017, 01:13 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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First of all, in confessing my ignorance, I'd like to say that I envision the investigation to proceed at the glyph (symbol) level, rather than looking at the parts of individual VMs symbols.
The analysis of text is the search for a method of interpretation. But what is that method applied to? Is it to raw text or to abstracted statistics? What is the choice of subject material to be analyzed? And furthermore what is the source for the choice of methodology? Is method something the investigator learned or invented? And then it is just applied wherever and however?
Or could method and material both be contained in the text waiting to be discovered, common medieval information waiting to be recognized? Is the method contained in the text, in the seventeen symbol sequence of f57v? And is the specific text segment as subject for analysis designated by the markers on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and validated by references to a well-known religious tradition and related historical events?
Is there some way that these two elements might work in combination?
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![[Image: 51XtVKxyXlL._SX320_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XtVKxyXlL._SX320_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
![[Image: 8cecac2a2e2d2d0d6326af50d83c05ac.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8c/ec/ac/8cecac2a2e2d2d0d6326af50d83c05ac.jpg)