Some folios are missing which may have been wheels like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or abstract tables.
Setup using the 57v cipher Wheel:
Condition:
1) Invented language for the VMS.
Condition:
2) The cipher wheel in folio 57v in which four dials are set to different lengths along with four different concentric circles.
a) Yes, you have the regular cipher wheel of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with all the VMS glyph s as in its current form in 2d, but the trick is you have to make it 3d.
Down Side How to build the missing wheel? So when you turn the dials and concentric circles words are formed mapped to the VMS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.!
Hypothetical:
The missing wheel may have had numbers assigned to it with a alphabet, but how do you make a wheel with the most used affix's and suffix's and normal letters so when you turn the dials to desired positions VMS glyph s are appropriately mapped to the VMS words or glyph s? At the same time, how do you make it not so obvious as part of the Cipher but to the Author very easy to instantly reconstruct his own cipher wheels?
Furthermore, extra missing wheels would not be placed in order in the VMS, but clues would point the way to how numbers and words were equal. The missing wheels would use abstract information to disguise itself; as Julian would say maybe a puzzle within a puzzle! These missing wheels are formed like abstract Pi Charts with numbers and glyphs at various locations. Maybe even 90°cutaways and charts with various numbers and perhaps VMS art work as in pipes to point a trail of how to use the dials of the missing wheels that you build in 3d.
What I'm getting at is someone took the missing wheels out of the VMS which look like or connect to to folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. either abstract or complex. Or this idea next.
[IDEA]
[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]The outer ring of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. contains about 51 VMS vords combined in total with a small set of VMS glyph's. [/font] [font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]Next Ring in from outer contains 46 VMS glyphs that are normal! [/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]Do you notice the one abstract glyph that has a Right Angle with a degree sign and open triangle at 45[/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]°pointed down. This maybe suggesting a dial to point at 45[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]° and the other to 90[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]° and when you close the dials the glyph's make sense; then as you close them together at one degree or degrees to each glyph. Just a thought but how to apply a trigonometric function? The dials are used to form words along with Geometry? By the way 45 and 90 = You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font][/font][/font][/font]
Next Ring closing in on the 4 people are 30 vms words and some glyph s combined
Next Ring to the 4 people equals 31 glyph s combined with vords.
The total of sole glyphs and vords in the rings is 158 which equals You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. not counting the vords next insided circle with the 4 people. or the very outer single vord and if you count the total number of these words its a 9. SEE SOLOMON'S Key below.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This read may contain what we need! You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Make a 3d map of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. then place four dials on it and make the four circles which turn too. Next use Euclidean Geometry or Trigonometry for the 4 similar wavy P glyph s as degree markers that are set to 90[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]°; then use the four different dial lengths and turn them. You see the three empty 360[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]° spaces, fill that with numbers and Latin letters A=1 through Z=26 which follow ordinal Gematria. Next add some common Latin affix's and suffix's as-well as English in another circle, but you have to place them in there at what degrees? We could have 3 different languages so the count would be 72 letters of the Latin alphabet + what number of compound words, added next to VMS vords, in the empty circles placed at certain glyph or degree markers. Now spin the wheel and the dials and play the lotto then look at where the dials and wheels end up. Do they make words correlated to VMS words my guess is no that is like a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. test. So now make a word if you can then look it up in this calculator. Deliberately point the dials through the VMS glyphs to Latin letters and the dials that go through a VMS glyph or word which equals a common English affix, suffix or Latin letter. [/font][/font][/font]
[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]Or just go to my Cipher and place the Latin letters and or compound words in the empty circles of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. next to Glyph s and vords which the dial reads the same as my cipher with associated Gematria Number as in A=1 through Z=26.[/font][/font][/font]
[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font][/font]
Quote:Chart and Sigils from a Greek Key of Solomon ~15th century Sacred Geometry Spiritual Symbolism, Key Of Solomon, Solomon Seals Symbols, Solomon Magick, Keys
In a recent posting, an image of the Zodiac man contained certain commentary with words such as 'cholera' and 'melancholia', in which the final letter 'a' had a significant tail underneath that much resembled the shape of the number '9'. This is also a shape that has a similarity to one of the VMs symbols, sometimes transcribed as '9', but is also found in the 4 x 17 Symbol Sequence of VMs f 57v, as Symbol #15, transcribed as EVA letter 'y'.
In prior investigations of the 4 x 17 sequence, [Triple Convergence], I had suggest that there are three ways to interpret the fifth symbol of the sequence. They are 1) as the Greek letter lambda, 2) as the medieval form of the number '7', and 3) as the Roman numeral V = 5, inverted.
In addition, each of these interpretations is confirmed by a form of objective placement. In the example of the fifth symbol as lambda, the first symbol of the sequence, EVA letter 'o', interpreted as the Greek letter omicron, is placed in the proper sequential relationship as it would be in the Greek alphabet, with three symbols in between, if reading Greek from right to left.
Now, if one takes Symbol #15, with its various interpretations, and substitutes a potential interpretation as the letter 'a' and then takes the Greek alphabet as set down by the letters omicron and lambda, and then continues to move onward to the right through the Greek alphabet toward alpha, well, guess what? [Bingo, bango, bongo!] The count lands on Symbol #15. A new objective, position-based confirmation of the Greek alphabet interpretation.
I recently pointed out, in another place, that among the numerous reasons for doubting that Rudolf ever saw or owned the manuscript is that when Marcus Marci mentioned Mnishovsky's rumour, Marci was already suffering from a condition which affected his memory.
This is known because a mutual friend (Kinner) wrote to Kircher just 18 months later, saying then that Marci " has forgotten almost everything".
I wasn't entirely surprised by the blog-holder's lack of interest in this question of how much weight should be placed on a particular seventeenth century source, or even in the philosophical issue of how much weight should be placed on any particular source.
The response was one all-too-common these days, and which we've seen employed ad.nauseum since the first mailing list closed: it sees the actual information or issue ignored, and all responses aimed only at demeaning the researcher - as a means to ensure that the disturbing evidence, information or comment will be ignored and some pet theory continue to be believed.
In this case, the ad hominem attack on me began with an entirely ludicrous argument that by referring to Marci's condition (as documented by Kinner's letter) I was "attacking" Marcus Marci - who has been dead for several centuries. The fantasy was elaborated: this supposed 'attack' was motivated by some 'ideological agenda' - a product partly of the blog-holder's fertile imagination, but mostly the result of a pretty determined effort by earlier parties to spread the idea that my involvement in this study has some devious motive. (The fact is that I was asked to comment on it, because I'm a specialist in comparative iconography and -analysis).
Of course it is funny - until you recall that just this sort of combined mindlessness and dedication to maintaining the old ideas is what history tells us leads to the worst excesses of anti-intellectualism.
We don't burn books so much, but we do (outside this forum) see propagandist methods used to have dissenters portrayed as "bad people" and then constantly flamed. The myth of the dissenter as morally evil is an appropriately superstitious and medieval idea, but we ourselves are supposed to live in more rational times.
I'd hate to see the "Ignore and flame" disease infect this forum too, so as preventative measure, I propose we adopt the following as a personal yardstick: If it is about the manuscript, or about the history of its study, it's fair comment.
and conversely:
If it aims only to degrade another member - if the message is not about the manuscript it's off-topic.
This is a bit of a philosophical question: what comes first, the imagery or the text? Should we try to understand the images better first, or try to crack the text first? Which one will offer the easiest entrance? Which one will help us understand the other better?
There are some arguments that can shoot this thread down, so I would like to get them out of the way already. Let's hypothesize that:
the text does contain some meaning (not necessarily plain text)
the text and the images do belong together
the document is genuine
This is not necessarily true, but in my opinion very likely. So let's assume for a moment that the text is meaningful and arranged in a way that it complements the imagery.
---
When I started studying the manuscript - after having read some introductory material - I first focused on the text. With some naive enthusiasm, which you probably recognize. I soon realized that there were just too many unknowns to have a go at it without any foothold, so I gradually shifted my attention to the imagery. I am now growing more convinced that a profound understanding of the imagery is required before we can figure out the text. Studying the images can teach us:
Which cultural background(s) are present, and hence which languages we may expect
When the imagery originated and when it was altered, and hence, again, which languages we may expect
Which subject matter we might look for in the text - specifically in the case of labels.
I notice though, that quite a number of people study mostly or even exclusively the text. So I wonder what your philosophy is about this issue. Can we understand one without the other? Do you focus on one because you think it offers the best chance of a breakthrough? Or rather because you feel more at home with one or the other?
A while back I counted the letters in vords and also tried to identify the "rhytm" in the words (specific letterpatterns)
needless to say that I failed in finding anything worthwhile.
But, as a mindgame I regularly go over my past theories and think about improvements.
Today I was asking myself this question: Is it possible if you count the letters in every vord, to find a pattern?
This is useful, because when the text contains a cipher, it is very probable that it has a fixed (block) length.
I am talking about the text, not specifically about the labels.
For example:
* every vord has an even amount of letters. like 64246228
* every vord has an odd amount of letters
* every significant vord -length is repeated once like 66 44 22 32648 66 44 21684 22 44
* ...
In order to do this you will have to make decisions on how to count several letters. For example you could count a gallow as 1 or 2 or count Sh as 3 or 1 or 2 etc.
A quick exercise showed me this is not so simple as it looks and should not be waved immediately.
Perhaps there are other possible patterns.
If so, we can try to find a way to rule everything out by writing a method that check every possible method.
In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , a "Beatus map" was mentioned. Petersen referred to it in connection with the lower right circle in the Rosettes page.
Evidently, he is referring to this map, also known as the Osma Beatus map:
The rectangular part with Andrew's cross refers to "paradisus".
It is indeed a tempting likeness.
(Copied from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.by KG)
Ernest Lillie wrote:
Quote:Anything you can provide will be much appreciated. I've long hoped that someone, at some time, had either photographed or hand copied the now obscured bits of "9 Rosette" --- like the above mentioned label and the worn out gutter between the S and SE disks.
I just scanned the relevant pages of the Th.Petersen hand transcription, and realised that it includes only 8 of the 9 circles. The upper right one is missing. I will need to go through the original at home to see if it is there. After that, I will post a link. Note, however, that unfortunately the quality is particularly bad for this part of the MS.
A few words about early sources: Voynich made photostats of the entire MS, in B/W. Many of these are still preserved in the Beinecke, and are probably the earliest copies. A few of them are on glass plates, still preserved, a technique that people interested in old photography can probably explain.
The Th.Petersen hand transcription is also very early, but later than these.
Another early record is the "Friedman copy", which may derive from photostats before the Th.Petersen transcription. It is also preserved in the Marshall library, and photocopies of it have been circulated. Friedman provided copies of these to his contacts, and one of these has been digitised. I have not looked at it for ages. I may still have it. It was not better than the copyflo, as far as I remember.
That last item is a printout of a very early microfilm made by the Beinecke, I don't know exactly when, but certainly before 1976.
The VMs is a programm, not computer, but handwritten one. It must not be read, it is run and it just functions. Of course, it can be written and it is written by a medieval programmer. You could read a source code to understand the function of this program, if you know this especial programming language. As it is doubtful, it keeps and will keep on functioning to its finish line.
As my site with the article, where the theme of the hidden notes and images in the VMs was observed, doesn't work now, I've decided to place it here, with updates and corrections. The aim is to put together all existed hidden and illegible notes, pictures or symbols of the VMs, ; to systematize and to analyse them. As well, it is necessary to know, why they are here and why they are hidden.
I think that revealing of these notes is a very important task. Who knows, maybe, they include a name of the author or a date of the VMs originating, or some sacral symbols, which could explain the nature of the content. For now, unfortunately, there is no progress in proof of my and others's discoveries in this area, also there is no agreement in reading of the suspected notes, but I have a huge hope that the day of the "official revealing" will come sooner or later. 1. The first item in my list is the inscription in the left top corner of the Rosettes page (f86r). It was discovered by others before me and, later, by myself independently.
a) this fragment, edited in a few ways, with and without photofilters
b) this fragment in original look (1) and its interpretation (2, 3-4)
The last level of the interpretation was shown on my site, but I haven't include it here since it is too obscure and doubtful, although I believe it is present.
2. The notes in the right low corner of the Rosettes page (f86r).
a) the fragment of the original image
b) the edited fragment with changing of the lightening ranges
c) the tables with this fragment edited with different methods
d) the table containing the original image (1) and the interpreted one (2-3) (with burned lines)
3. The faded inscription (letter/symbol) in the right low corner of the Rosettes page (f86r). It was discovered and discussed many times. Many of us considered it the capital letter "M". This letter can mean many different abbreviations, therefore, even, if this is the mentioned one, it doesn't clarify the issue, but, there really is one more letter after it, it can be a hint.
a) the edited fragment with the "M"
b) the mentioned "M' in comparison with "M"s of the Codex Sang. 754
c) the fragment showing some letters (abbreviation?) next to the "M" with my interpretation (the last image)
4. The first page (f1r) of the VMs, top right corner. The illegible notes/ symbols/ image.
a) the edited fragment (1-2) and my interpretation with burned lines (3)
5. The notes on the figure on the f85v. Thanks to JKP for paying attention to it. JKP, even, if you are still doubt in its existing or in the reading, I find it to be very important for continuation of my examination on the hidden images of the VMs.
a) the edited fragment of the f85v
b) the next levels of correction (changed lightening ranges, photofilters) and my vision (the left low image)
c) the edited fragment with the suspected word in latin letters on the hand of the figure (1) and the two versions of my interpretation (2-3). The last letter/ symbol is not usual ("bird-glyph?), but, as I think, it substitutes by itself the letter "r"
In conclusion, I need to say that, as much as I see and understand it, the author of these notes often uses capital letters (in the begining of a word, a whole word, a separate letter). So, I'd say that this is a main difference between them and the visible marginalia. I'd note that the handwriting differs, as well.
The hidden notes could be divided in two categories: letters and symbols (sigils?) The letters are Latin, the symbols are not usual for alchemical or habitual magical sigils. I can only suppose that they are personal author's sigils or unknown to us symbols.
![[Image: 2a2ab25e9407f888367de842330b19c1.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/2a/2a/b2/2a2ab25e9407f888367de842330b19c1.jpg)
![[Image: Beatus-of-Osma-map.jpg]](http://www.medievalists.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Beatus-of-Osma-map.jpg)
