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Welcome, Guest You have to register before you can post on our site. Username/Email:    Password    Remember me Search Forums (Advanced Search) Online Users There are currently 767 online users. » 5 Member(s) | 759 Guest(s) Applebot, Bing, Google, Jorge_Stolfi, obelus, quimqu Latest Threads Analysis of patterns at t... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: quimqu 9 minutes ago » Replies: 9 » Views: 315 Always impressive Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media Last Post: Aga Tentakulus 3 hours ago » Replies: 28 » Views: 8,636 Combination of pch glyphs Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: ReneZ Today, 12:39 AM » Replies: 22 » Views: 12,481 [split] VMS mailing list ... Forum: Voynich Talk Last Post: Koen G Yesterday, 08:24 AM » Replies: 11 » Views: 310 Eleven Moon Phases in Fol... Forum: Astrology & Astronomy Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi Yesterday, 05:17 AM » Replies: 121 » Views: 21,488 Speculative fraud hypothe... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Jorge_Stolfi Yesterday, 03:50 AM » Replies: 87 » Views: 6,021 The journey into an unkno... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Petrasti 14-09-2025, 04:02 PM » Replies: 26 » Views: 2,601 How to prove that the B-l... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: Ruby Novacna 14-09-2025, 08:00 AM » Replies: 76 » Views: 33,965 My Theory: RITE — Ritual ... Forum: Theories & Solutions Last Post: oaken 13-09-2025, 08:47 PM » Replies: 18 » Views: 1,516 Positional Mimic Cipher (... Forum: Analysis of the text Last Post: quimqu 13-09-2025, 06:58 PM » Replies: 39 » Views: 1,769

About "group" words Posted by: Diane - 07-10-2016, 02:52 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (7) For this, I'll have to ask temporary suspension of disbelief. Supposing that (1) my analyses and ids for the botanical folios are not far wrong; and (2) that they are composite images as I concluded from the analyses -  later finding, rather nicely, that the Friedman group suspected it; and indeed that (3) the majority of plants pictured in the botanical folios are  native to the line between southeast Asia and Arabia.  So, tracing eastern plants' early importation  to the west, I found they came first through Cairo (Fustat). Specific information about just which plants were being imported and used, and connections between Cairo and southern Italy comes from just one  source available to me, though I have long ago referred others to the work of Oliver Kahl in connection with Arabic dispensatories. (As far as I heard back, no one followed that lead). The  Cairo geniza documents are both relevant and specific. That is, they include actual prescriptions and traders' lists because medical works are often theoretical. One paper has been written on this subject of materia medica from the Cairo geniza, and by the same authors who wrote a larger book published by Brill.  One of the authors (Dr. Lev) agreed to put up the paper at academia.edu. This bit I thought the linguists might find interesting, or even useful: “The medieval system tended to classify plants and animals in larger groups according to external morphological characters, with no consideration of genetic proximity or anatomical similarity as is the case today. Therefore, the existence of a collective (general) name for a group of several similar species was common. Here, are some examples of this feature:- 1. Fūdanj: collective name for various species of aromatic plants, namely of the family Labiatae (Maimonides, 1940). 2. Zaj: collective name for salts of sulphuric acid (verdigris,vitriol) compounded with various metals such as iron, copper, lead, and zinc (Maimonides, 1940; Amar and Serri, 2004). 3. Awsaj: collective name for spiny bush species such as boxthorn, buckthorn (Lycium sp.), (Rhamnus sp.), and bramble.   ... If I have correctly analysed the imagery and rightly identified the plants then the unifying principle might actually be a single word, rather than (as I described) "similar form with  comparable or complementary purpose and naturally occurring in proximity".  Native speakers, traders, pharmacists and keepers of the funduqs or warehouses used those group-words regularly.   Of course, nice looking herbals and medical works made for Latin libraries would separate each plant, picture some and label them individually, a la Dioscorides. Not what we have in the Vms. There's no reason that the Vms mightn't be a traders' handbook, or a warehouse book.  Baresch does speak of "thesauros Artis medicae Aegyptiacos".  and in Latin 'thesauros" could mean a "treasury" of knowledge, but it could also mean quite literally a warehouse.. basically a treasure-house of goodies. So what do people think about the 'group word' as possible key to the botanical folios? (not the leaves and root section). Too many imponderables?   f53r IOANISS DEE SIGNATURE FOUND LEAF INVERTED! Posted by: stellar - 07-10-2016, 06:10 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (11) I have searched for days looking for signs of a signature which attributes John Dee for designing the MS-408.  I truly believe he made this document and as most artists practice as a hiding technique; they place hard to spot letters in their art.  I have done this with some of my oil paintings.  There is a leaf half way up to the right in folio 53r and if you invert it and look really close you can make out letters. Ioaniss Dee This is a solid analysis for letters just don’t appear!  Also it looks as though he tried to hide the text with a dark brown stain, but he added a pointer to the letter, “o”.  This is information and finally it adds validity to my work. Also earlier today I found this, credit JKP:   f68r2 Stars Posted by: stellar - 07-10-2016, 03:21 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - No Replies f68r2 Stars   f82r Dee's Necronomicon Star of Ishtar Posted by: stellar - 06-10-2016, 08:42 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (1) f82r Dee's Necronomicon Star of Ishtar:   Sorry for the inconvenience Posted by: sidanno - 06-10-2016, 05:46 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (14) Sorry for the inconvenience   Amelia Sarah Levetus Posted by: EllieV - 06-10-2016, 04:23 PM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (9) Voynich discovered the VMs supposedly around 1911 and presented it publicly in 1915 during the Art Exhibition in Chicago. The 1915 press reports give impression that the VMs was part of Italian collection that was sent to Austria for safekeeping during the Napoleonic Wars. In 1913 Voynich starts advertising business address in Vienna, Austria (XIX Peter Jordangasse, 27). In 2003 Dana Scott pointed similarities between this address and the Vienna address of Voynich's family friend Amelia Sarah Levetus - art historian and writer.   voynich austria.jpg (Size: 54.49 KB / Downloads: 95) In her 1906 book "Imperial Vienna" Amelia Levetus describes the movement of the Hapsburg art collection during the Napoleonic wars: "  Those work of art, collected by Ferdinand von Tyrol, were placed in Schloss Ambras. Napoleon knew of their whereabouts, and carried them off to Paris, but they were returned after the Congress, when they were brought to Vienna, and placed in the Upper Belvedere for better safety" The story is from the same historic period as the one in Kansas City Times, November 12, 2015 describing the movement of the VMs collection: "When Napoleon began to send the valuable collections of art works of Northern Italy to Paris, the heads of the other states took fright. Many dukes and princes sent their possessions to Austria in the hope that there they would be safe." So Amelia Levetus was aware about this particular period. Her book " Imperial Vienna" has a lot of research about the relations of Napoleon and Austria. Is it possible that Amelia Levetus was the one who found the loose ends in the art collection movements in Austria during the Napoleonic wars while researching her books and articles and alerted the Voyniches? I often wondered how exactly Voynich learned about this abandoned collection. Voynich advertised his Vienna business address in 1913 and again in 1914. Itally, Austria and Hapsburg collection were mentioned a lot in the 1915 press in relation to the VMs and other manuscripts exhibition. All mentioning of Austria disappeared  in 1916 after FBI started investigating Voynich for suspicion of being German spy (possessing cipher manuscript). This must have spooked him - so he stopped mentioning anything German-related to the manuscript.   Proposed mnemonic devices Posted by: don of tallahassee - 06-10-2016, 06:06 AM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (10) iiiii   Georg Baresch - Prague 1624 Posted by: CarlL - 05-10-2016, 06:58 PM - Forum: Provenance & history - Replies (37) Here are a couple of links to a Georg Baresch at Prague in the year 1624.  I thought somebody might be interested in them. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[url=http://katalog.ahmp.cz/pragapublica/permalink?xid=E1BD36D2B72711DF820F00166F1163D4&scan=584] Carl   Plant pictures as composite images Posted by: Diane - 05-10-2016, 12:25 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (11) I'd like some help from other members to clarify a point for the introduction to a book of essays. I was unaware until fairly recently that the Friedman group had formed a general opinion that plants in the manuscript's botanical section were formed as composites. Having discovered the fact independently - and presented an explanation of the way in which the pictures are structured, the system informing the 'pictorial annotations' at the roots and identified about forty folios' worth, I was later informed that the general idea had been stated in d'Imperio's book. So my question is this.  Between 1912 and the publication of Mary's book in 1978 and (separately) between 1978 and when I began publishing my own work (from 2010) had anyone ever looked into that issue, or defined any of the plants as composites, or explained any folio in that way? Otherwise it looks as if d'Imperio's general statement was ignored for the first thirty years, and now that an independent investigation has provided explanation and demonstration - now that is being ignored, while the general statement is increasingly repeated... Is that the case, or is there a precedent body of research that I've overlooked?  Please rack your memories.. Thank you.   Dee's Table Glyph's Match Voynich Glyph's Posted by: stellar - 05-10-2016, 03:10 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (3) John Dee’s Enochian glyph’s to Voynich: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. First Previous Next Last